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30mm gau 8 pgu14/b
- Thread starter Heko202
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- 30mm gau 8 pgu14
Check out the following IAA links:
http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9339&p=67186&hilit=gau#p67186
http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1255&hilit=gau
Hope this helps!
Brian
http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9339&p=67186&hilit=gau#p67186
http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1255&hilit=gau
Hope this helps!
Brian
Hi Heiko,
Not sure on the current usage, except i would think so. But i can add some other info for you regarding the PGU-14 API
Total length of round is 290mm
Total Weight is 694g
M/V of 1013 M/S
It is a API round consiting of a penetrating core (DU) and a pyrophoric composition to ignite anything flamable inside the target.
Best regards Weasel.
Not sure on the current usage, except i would think so. But i can add some other info for you regarding the PGU-14 API
Total length of round is 290mm
Total Weight is 694g
M/V of 1013 M/S
It is a API round consiting of a penetrating core (DU) and a pyrophoric composition to ignite anything flamable inside the target.
Best regards Weasel.
Last edited:
Hello Heiko,
As carefully (and painstakingly) crafted in German by e-mail, the GAU-8s used to be one of my main specialties, right up until the point where I started to fully specialise in Japanese ammunition. Ever since, most of the GAU-8s have been traded, but I do have some left. As for the very type you ask about: I used to have some 3-4 specimens over here. Nowadays I've only got one left, with a completely black projectile.
All specimens I had at home were always way too light for the official quoted weight of a service specimen, with true DU penetrator. This intrigued me. I have to look up the exact amounts, but IIRC, the ones I had used to weigh around 175 grams (projectile alone) and the official weight of the projectile (found amongst others in an ATK data sheet I have over here) should be around 475 grams. This intrigued me, so I did quite a bit of research about it, and even wrote to the main ATK developers to ask about this; not surprisingly so their only answer was that it was all classified information, and that they were not allowed to comment.
I did find out that DU is on the US list of restricted goods, making its mere possession illegal. Without access to an X-ray machine, for years I could only guess as to what was inside, if anything. Then, back in 2009, I traded one of my specimens (which looks identical to the one in the picture you showed, but it was equipped with a bright red case) to PzGr40; our 'cutaway man'.
This was when finally some of the puzzles started to get solved: he sectioned the round, and found two things of interest:
#1: the primer of the bright red case was fake (though from the outside you would not be able to tell).
#2: it is equipped with a dummy penetrator, made of regular steel. The dimensions are identical to that of the real one, but it is much lighter. (No, it's not a Tungsten penetrator).
Preliminary conclusion: the specimens that are too light seem to be official factory dummies.
As for the real ones... An acquaintance of mine once had the opportunity to handle one. Weighing it showed the projectile should have the proper weight. He also ran a Geigerteller next to it, but that showed no reaction. Weight is really key to setting these rounds apart. But... there may be other clues too. Two real specimens were seen and both featured different paint schemes from the dummies: a black projectile with a red band, and a bright red painted head of the case. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not. It's possible that the factory dummies were painted in a distinct way to set them aside from the real thing (not confirmed; just a possibility).
On a general note of interest to this line of ammo, it seems there are (or may be) 3 different main service versions of it:
-PGU-14: early version, with a more ogival projectile (much like the HE specimen in your picture). I've never seen an API one with this shape, so I'm not 100% certain it actually exists, but I think that all 'A' versions were shaped like that, and later as 'B' versions became sharper pointed (though the HE stayed the same, so this may not be correct).
-PGU-14B: DU penetrator, sharp pointed projectile, different ballistics from the 'A' line of rounds.
-PGU-14B: tungsten penetrator, similar shape and ballistics as the DU kind, hence I think the 'B' designation stayed like that, and was not changed to a 'C', that I'm aware of.
As for the transition from DU to Tungsten: the specimens with DU penetrator were heavily used in combat in Operation Desert Storm; surely you will have heard about the "Desert Storm Syndrome" which is attributed to inhalation of splintered DU. Consequently, these rounds became notorious, and under pressure investigation was done to less toxic penetrators. Eventually, Tungsten steel penetrators were developed.
These had a similar weight, but were not incendiary. As for the incendiary part of the DU ones, IIRC it is the DU itself (instead of a separate compound) that has incendiary properties upon splintering, but I'm not sure, so maybe something else was added into the mix?!
Anyway, these are, in prose, the main findings of what I know about them. All the specifics would have to be retrieved from some 2-3 e-mail archives ago, so that may be tough. I can, however, look for some of the things, like the ATK data sheet. I would need some time to do so, so it may take a while before such information is retrieved...
Cheers,
Olaf
As carefully (and painstakingly) crafted in German by e-mail, the GAU-8s used to be one of my main specialties, right up until the point where I started to fully specialise in Japanese ammunition. Ever since, most of the GAU-8s have been traded, but I do have some left. As for the very type you ask about: I used to have some 3-4 specimens over here. Nowadays I've only got one left, with a completely black projectile.
All specimens I had at home were always way too light for the official quoted weight of a service specimen, with true DU penetrator. This intrigued me. I have to look up the exact amounts, but IIRC, the ones I had used to weigh around 175 grams (projectile alone) and the official weight of the projectile (found amongst others in an ATK data sheet I have over here) should be around 475 grams. This intrigued me, so I did quite a bit of research about it, and even wrote to the main ATK developers to ask about this; not surprisingly so their only answer was that it was all classified information, and that they were not allowed to comment.
I did find out that DU is on the US list of restricted goods, making its mere possession illegal. Without access to an X-ray machine, for years I could only guess as to what was inside, if anything. Then, back in 2009, I traded one of my specimens (which looks identical to the one in the picture you showed, but it was equipped with a bright red case) to PzGr40; our 'cutaway man'.
This was when finally some of the puzzles started to get solved: he sectioned the round, and found two things of interest:#1: the primer of the bright red case was fake (though from the outside you would not be able to tell).
#2: it is equipped with a dummy penetrator, made of regular steel. The dimensions are identical to that of the real one, but it is much lighter. (No, it's not a Tungsten penetrator).
Preliminary conclusion: the specimens that are too light seem to be official factory dummies.
As for the real ones... An acquaintance of mine once had the opportunity to handle one. Weighing it showed the projectile should have the proper weight. He also ran a Geigerteller next to it, but that showed no reaction. Weight is really key to setting these rounds apart. But... there may be other clues too. Two real specimens were seen and both featured different paint schemes from the dummies: a black projectile with a red band, and a bright red painted head of the case. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not. It's possible that the factory dummies were painted in a distinct way to set them aside from the real thing (not confirmed; just a possibility).
On a general note of interest to this line of ammo, it seems there are (or may be) 3 different main service versions of it:
-PGU-14: early version, with a more ogival projectile (much like the HE specimen in your picture). I've never seen an API one with this shape, so I'm not 100% certain it actually exists, but I think that all 'A' versions were shaped like that, and later as 'B' versions became sharper pointed (though the HE stayed the same, so this may not be correct).
-PGU-14B: DU penetrator, sharp pointed projectile, different ballistics from the 'A' line of rounds.
-PGU-14B: tungsten penetrator, similar shape and ballistics as the DU kind, hence I think the 'B' designation stayed like that, and was not changed to a 'C', that I'm aware of.
As for the transition from DU to Tungsten: the specimens with DU penetrator were heavily used in combat in Operation Desert Storm; surely you will have heard about the "Desert Storm Syndrome" which is attributed to inhalation of splintered DU. Consequently, these rounds became notorious, and under pressure investigation was done to less toxic penetrators. Eventually, Tungsten steel penetrators were developed.
These had a similar weight, but were not incendiary. As for the incendiary part of the DU ones, IIRC it is the DU itself (instead of a separate compound) that has incendiary properties upon splintering, but I'm not sure, so maybe something else was added into the mix?!
Anyway, these are, in prose, the main findings of what I know about them. All the specifics would have to be retrieved from some 2-3 e-mail archives ago, so that may be tough. I can, however, look for some of the things, like the ATK data sheet. I would need some time to do so, so it may take a while before such information is retrieved...
Cheers,
Olaf
Last edited:
Hi again,
Some quick results of browsing my computer...
Firstly, check out a site I made many a moon ago, for the purpose of asking about these API ones. This was made somewhere around 2004-2005: http://212.178.67.161/avx/sites/ammo/gau8/index.html
Nrs. 3 and 4 from the left are of the API kind, but... with fake penetrators.
Also attached are some pictures, which I think you'll enjoy.
In the line-up of 10 rounds, the real DU one is nr. 2 from the left. Nrs. 3,4 and 5 from the left are of the 'typical' (underweighted) 'factory dummy' kind. Nrs. 6 and 7 from the left are related. Nr. 7 clearly marks having a (normal) steel penetrator. In the two pictures with the line-up with the +/- 60 rounds, you'll spot two real DU ones. A thing I forgot to write: only one of them has the bright red base.
Cheers,
Olafo
Some quick results of browsing my computer...
Firstly, check out a site I made many a moon ago, for the purpose of asking about these API ones. This was made somewhere around 2004-2005: http://212.178.67.161/avx/sites/ammo/gau8/index.html
Nrs. 3 and 4 from the left are of the API kind, but... with fake penetrators.
Also attached are some pictures, which I think you'll enjoy.
In the line-up of 10 rounds, the real DU one is nr. 2 from the left. Nrs. 3,4 and 5 from the left are of the 'typical' (underweighted) 'factory dummy' kind. Nrs. 6 and 7 from the left are related. Nr. 7 clearly marks having a (normal) steel penetrator. In the two pictures with the line-up with the +/- 60 rounds, you'll spot two real DU ones. A thing I forgot to write: only one of them has the bright red base.
Cheers,
Olafo
Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
Yes, DU is pyrophoric - it produces sparks on impact, giving it the incendiary effect.
Olaf, do you know whether or not the tungsten-cored version has entered service? The last I heard the AP rounds were still DU (although in recent conflicts the A-10 aircraft have fired their guns in the anti-personnel role, so have been loaded with PGU-13 HEI ammo).
Maverick1112003
Member
Hello,
Here are 30x173 of my collection
The left one is an inert API.
The projectile weighs only 125 grams.
The colors (black and red) are inverted with regard to other pictures.
best regards
Michel
Here are 30x173 of my collection
The left one is an inert API.
The projectile weighs only 125 grams.
The colors (black and red) are inverted with regard to other pictures.
best regards
Michel
Last edited:
Hey guys Im new to this forum, but I can say this is some information that I have been searching for for some time. I recently acquired two such rounds that appear exactly like #4 and #5 in the first photo of Ogreve's post. I was a little concerned that the projectile I received did in fact contain a DU penetrator until I began to do a lot of research. I'm still not 100% but I can tell you that from what Ive read, it seems to be the steel inert core and not DU based upon weight. The projectile on the red shell that was specially prepared, also says the 25 millionth round is non-magnetic and hollowI believe. I can tell you that the other Projectile (which Im a bit more worried about) weights 250grams and is magnetic, adhering to a strong magnet when placed on the projectile there are no markings or lettering on it anywhere. You guys seem to be the experts on this stuff, can you tell me anything? Does the magnetism have anything to do with if its DU or not? Without putting a Geiger counter to it- only due to the fact that I wouldn't know where to get one, how can I be certain that this round is NOT depleted uranium? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks 
guys.
guys.
Darren
Well-Known Member
I am unable to tell you anything about your round and projectile but nice find! Great condition.
Tony Williams
Well-Known Member
The DU-cored PGU-14 API weighs 390g (projectile only - weight of complete loaded round 694g).
So the fact that this round is significantly less than 390g would that say that it is a factory dummy with a steel penetrator inside the projectile?