57mm varient

[Burney Davis]

I came across three unusual projectiles a while back and thought I would post some pictures in the hope that someone can shed some light on their development.

The picture below shows the three next to a British 6pr 7cwt APCBC. From left to right they are an APCBC, AP and possibly another APCBC but missing the cap and balistic cap. The driving band is a standard WW1 Hotchkiss model on all three, which is in contrast to the single profile on the 6pr.

The strange thing about these is that they are stamped with Italian makers marks and were found at an old German munitions factory! The AP projectile is dated 1935 and the APCBC is dated 1938. As far as I am aware, the British 6pr AT gun did not surface until 1939 and then only with AP shot. Has anybody got any information on these projectiles?

 

[Burney Davis]

The next two pictures show the two base fuzes. Each of different design, these are typical of the WW1 fuzes found in 1 pounder projectiles, only larger.

 

[Burney Davis]

57mm Variant

A close up of the one fuze - can anyone tell me what the designations of these two fuzes are?

 

[Burney Davis]

57mm Variant

And the detail of the cap and balistic cap.

 

[HAZORD]

Burney,

I haven't seen your mystery APCBC projo before, but the two without ballistic caps are very characteristic of the Nordenfelt style projos that predated the capped and ballistic capped projos that came out around the beginning of WWII. The rotating bands are exactly the same pattern as the Nordenfelt projos of the 1890s time frame, which could then be found on Nordenfelt/Maxim and then VSM projos up through the 20s and 30s.

 

[EOD]

Check on OP1668 "Italian And French Explosive Ordnance" from 1946. No relation to anything British.

 

[Burney Davis]

HAZ/EOD,

I don't have the OP1668 that you mention, but the 1953 TM that I do have mentions the two with very little information. What I'm trying to establish is their development. For instance

- this type of driving band is not used on any other Italian projectiles that I know of, so why use what is essentially an early British driving band on this calibre round?
- Canadian produced 6pr AT gun shot projectiles have the same Hotchkiss band, and not the flat profiled band. Is there any connection between the Italian and Canadian design?
- the APCBC proj is dated 1938. The 6pr AT gun did not come into production until late 1941 although designed in 1939. My understanding was that this type of projectile was developed to defeat thicker armour and FHP that by 1941/2 the 2pr could not deal with. So why did the Italians have such an advanced projectile in 1938? Presumably the British didn't know about this when they were developing their ammunition
- why would these have been found in a German munitions factory? Would they have been testing/experimenting with them? When did the Germans first use APCBC ammunition?

If these projectiles had been dated mid war I wouldn't have thought much about them other than being rare pieces but if anyone has any thoughts on the above I'd love to hear them.

Thanks

D