Are these American Civil War Paper fuse boxes??

[Dronic69]

Hi All,

For all the American Civil War (ACW) BOCN members, are the following 5 sec and 8 sec paper fuse boxes from the ACW period or later (perhaps prior???)?

If later, how late?

The "5 sec" package had printing on the front, but only the odd letter or two are still visible.

[Charles Jones book: "Artillery Fuses of the Civil War" does have a small section on the various paper fuse packaging (at the back), and does show a photo similar to these without any of the extensive stenciling]

[ As the ACW was between 1860-63 (from memory) how long after this were "black powder paper fuses replaced by the brass time ring ones? The M.75 9cm black powder time fuse was introduced around the 1873, so there is a 10 year gap period......any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated!]

Thanks
Cheers
Drew

 

[Dronic69]

No Takers???

So, are there no American Civil War Ordnance Collectors on BOCN??

Here's a couple more shots of the packaging and the fuses for reference....

[Note: All fuses shown have been chemically treated and therefore "INERT"]

Thanks
Cheers
Drew

 

[earni74]

fuzes

Hi drew,
As a very keen collector of fuzes,the photos are brilliant,I have no (ACW) in my collection,& those you show are in my view the best I have seen.
Thanks for showing them.:tinysmile_eyebrow_t

 

[Dronic69]

Hi Earni,
I must admit that I haven't come across many ACW fuses, especially in Australia.....there was a period several years ago where they seem to regularly turn up on the US Fleabay - and seem to go for fairly handsome sums (perhaps they were the rarer 40 second fuse types...???)

I'm assuming that mine ones are around the ACW period, perhaps a little later? But then are they actually US? There is the obvious English stencilling and there are couple of very faint English letters on one of the packages.....but were these guns /calibres exclusively used only by the USA? (I think not)
They may even be Aussie (err was Australia discovered by then??? :wink: )

Thank you for your comments!
Cheers
Drew

 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

ACW Paper Wrapped Time Fuses;

Good Morning,
They appear to be Confederate States paper wrapped powder train time fusee. Made in the south, they were without fancy container wrapping but usually had the time in seconds marked on the package. They contained mealed powder driven to obtain specific time ranges. Used in both smoothbore and rifled projectiles. As windage became reduced with more efficient sabots, sabots had to be grooved during moulding or at least notched in some manner to allow propellant flame to pass and ignite the outer end ofthe fuse.
The one shown below is not exactly like yours. Yours merely contained a column of driven black mealed powder. Also shown is a typical C.S. spherical shell and the normally used fuse adapter.
Regards,
John

 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Paper Wrapped Time Fuses;

Drew,
Below are some more examples of the use of ACW time fuses:
Regards,
John

 

[Dronic69]

Hi John,

You are a wealth of knowledge and have some superb illustrations and drawing references!

Thank you kind Sir!
Cheers
Drew

 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Paper time Fuses;

Drew,
Glad I could help. Just wish the package stampings were a little clearer to confirm orgin.
Below is the method of shipping and storage of the fuses and a sampling of the U.S. Federal Frankfort Arsenal made fuses.
Also I have added a copy of the Belgian Bormann fuse was also used in smoothbore and selected rifled gun shells. Usually found in case shot (shrapnel).
Regards,
John

 

[barob]

Being new to this forum, I'm a little late coming across this post. For some reason I can never see any images in Mr. Bartleson's posts that I have come across, so I don't know if he already included any examples above similar to what I show here.

Shown are two examples of fuse packages, each containing five 8-second fuses. The top is obviously from the Frankford Arsenal, the bottom maker is unknown. That package may or may not be Confederate (despite what many sellers will tell you, everything un-marked is not Confederate!). Many small Union suppliers did not splurge on packaging, and I have handled a large variety of fuse packages over the years.

A 20-second fuse is also shown in the photo.

This photo shows a paper fuse partially inserted in a Parrott Type C fuse adapter (the adapter is excavated), just as an example of how they were used. You can see a couple of the gradation lines on the fuse where it could be cut to a shorter time.

I don't know how much interest there is on this board in US Civil War ordnance. I have a fair amount of field projectiles and fuses/adapters that I've excavated over the years. Can post if there is any interest.

-Bruce

 

[ben2000]

A set I recently purchased

Hi All,

Here's a set of 5 Second fuzes I have. Anyone else have any to share with us?

Ben.

 

[AMMOTECHXT]

Thanks for showing these interesting and probably very fragile old fuzes. I too cannot see John Bartleson's images, only his text.

 

[Dronic69]

Shown are two examples of fuse packages, each containing five 8-second fuses. The top is obviously from the Frankford Arsenal, the bottom maker is unknown. That package may or may not be Confederate (despite what many sellers will tell you, everything un-marked is not Confederate!). Many small Union suppliers did not splurge on packaging, and I have handled a large variety of fuse packages over the years.

-Bruce

Hi Bruce,

According to Charles Jone's book on "Artillery Fuses of the Civil War", the bottom package is believed to have been manufactured by Pittsburgh's Allegheny Arsenal (p.164) Yours is shown as one of the seven examples. An excellent reference book!

Yes I'm aware that not all unmark packages were made by the Confederate side - Jones also implies this.

Another excellent reference book that I stumbled upon quite recently is John Graf's "Warman's Civil War Collectibles" - Identification and price guide - 2nd Edition 2006 (I'm still shaking my head at some of the projectile prices!!!!)

Thanks for sharing and yes I for one would love to see more pics of ACW items!

Cheers
Drew

 

[Dronic69]

Hi Ben,

Great find! Nice example!

Thanks for sharing
Cheers
Drew

 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Hi Drew,
They look similar to ACW but without clear markings I can't say for certain. Surely other countries used something of a similar design.
Below are some of ACW fuses.
John aka Bart

 

[Dronic69]

Hi John,

Great to hear from you!

Thanks for posting some of the pages from Jone's book - and as usual superb diagram!

Yes, I agree that other countries would have also used these types of fuses - perhaps British manufacture for export?
Interesting enough there seems to be "zero" references on this???

If I had more time to spare, I was going to research and compare gun types and calibres used during the ACW period to those used in Europe - usual suspects - British, French and German..........

From memory I though the South imported a lot of weapons (swords etc) from Europe and this may certainly add some element of truth to the import /export theory???

Cheers
Drew

 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Drew,
I do know that a lot of copyright infringement between countries was going on.
The Whitworth gun and projectiles was used by both North and South in the ACW.
The south also imported Armstrong and Blakely guns and their shells. The Britten shell was also used.
A collector friend of mine who is a Fleet Admiral in the Peruvian Navy has collected Armstrong, Blakely and Britten shells and even restored a large caliber Armstrong gun used in their war with Chili and Spain.
These shells and their fuzes are highly prized among U.s. collectors. And you are right about the unusual high prices ACW projectiles and fuzes are bringing.
Best Regards,
John aka Bart