British 6pdr. projectiles and American 57mm projectiles.......

[Kilroy]

In discussing the anti-armor usefulness of the 6pdr. / 57mm gun in the Allied armies, I had read an article one time that the UK ammunition provided to their troops were basically restricted to solid shot and an anti-armor only role, and possibly there was some variation with possibly some discarding sabot loads towards the end of the war, whereas the Americans supposedly *DID* manufacture some HE loads for their troops for the times when throwing some bombs at an enemy position can be a very handy type of ammunition to have a few crates of in the truck.

Does anybody know for sure if the Americans did indeed make HE 57mm loads in significant quantities? I only read this one article, and I think it only makes sense when sending a mid range size canon out into harms way, and NOT provide maybe 25% of their on hand ammunition be HE for those times when dealing with troops hiding in rubble or in improvised bunkers or other sheltered situations can be very handy and needed in the inventory.

if someone knows for sure there was 57mm / 6pdr. ammo with HE capability, could you please put up anything that you have available in photos, articles, etc??

TIA,
Walt

 

[pedro]

Significant quantities, who'd know. But they were made:TM 9-1901 of 1944

 

[TimG]

@Kilroy

From statement of ammunition March 1943


Markings for HE (December 1943)

TimG

 

[Antoon]

In TM-9-1901, ARTILLERY AMMUNITION (29 June 1944) is mentioned:
All 57-mm guns now in use are primarily antitank weapons, Various mounts are in use, and the British 6 Pr. 7 Cwt. guns is further distinguished from American makes by a shorter, stubbier barrel, However, all present types are chambered alike and therefore fire the same ammunition.

Cartridge, APC-T, M86, w/Fuze, BD, M72, 57-mm Guns, M1 and 6 Pr. 7 Cwt. (British).
Cartridge, APC-T, M86, 57-mm Guns, M1 and 6 Pr. 7 Cwt. (British). The bursting charge cavity is left empty and closed by a steel plug.
Cartridge, AP-T, M70, 57-mm Guns, M1 and 6 Pr. 7 Cwt. (British).

In TM-9-1901, ARTILLERY AMMUNITION (September 1950) is mentioned:
All 57-mm guns now in use are primarily antitank weapons, Various mounts are in use, and the British 6 Pr. Mk 3 is further distinguished from American makes by a shorter barrel, However, all present types are chambered alike and therefore fire the same ammunition.

Cartridge, APC-T, M86, w/Fuze, PD, M72, for 57-mm Guns. Fuze PD M72 is a typo, must be Fuze BD M72.
Cartridge, HE-T, M303, w/Fuze PD, M86, for 57-mm Guns.
Cartridge, HE-T, M303, w/Fuze PD, M85, for 57-mm Guns.

The US produced the following 57-mm (6 Pounder) Gun ammunition:
Augustus 1944 - Augustus 1945: 1845,000 - HE M303 (T18 & T18A1)
October 1942 - June 1945: 10,626,000 - APC-T M86 & AP M70
April 1944 - April 1945: 22,000 - Canister T17

So the production of the 57-mm HE started in August 1944. I assume that US forces used British 6-pounder HE (if available) before the American cartridges came available in the ETO. The US 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions (and maybe also the 17th) used British 6-pounder airborne configuration guns because the trials fit better in the glider than that of the 57-mm gun.

 

[Antoon]

In the British Lecture Precis Drawing No. 199 (Revised May 1945) is mentioned:

SHOT, All Fitted with Tracers:
A.P/T. Mk 1 - 7 & Mk 13
A.P.C./T. Mk 8, Mk 14
A.P.C.B.C./T. Mk 10, Mk 11, Mk 15
A.P.D.S./T. Mk 1

The Marks on the three types A.P., A.P.C. , A.P.C.B.C. form one numerical series. The individual marks of any one type differ mainly in the shape of the tracer cavity and in the design of driving band.


SHELL, All Service Rounds
For "True" rounds - Shell Q.F. H.E./T. 6 pr. 7 cwt. Mk 1
For "Hybrid" rounds - Shell Q.F. H.E. 6 pr. Mk 7 (without tracer)
For "Hybrid" rounds - Shell Q.F. H.E./T. 6 pr. Mk 10

The 6 pr shell is 1 -inch longer than 6 pr. 7 cwt shell and need a thicker neck to the case. The 6 pr shell cannot be fitted with capped fuzes as this would make them to long for the package. No "Hybrid" rounds will therefore be found with capped fuzes.

 

[Antoon]

Found this on the internet about production of 6 pr ammunition

 

[M8owner]

Photo attached of T18 HE shell dated 1945.

 

[flak18]

Photo attached of T18 HE shell dated 1945.

Now that is very special. Like to get my hands on one of those.....PLEASE !!!!