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British WW1 Fuse concerns.

W

wiggles

Member
Hello. This may be a very stupid question, but then, I'm very new to this.

I recently bought a couple of world war 1 fuses, I think a number 85, and a number 80, but not certain.

I'm concerned, (particularly about the one I think is an 80, which, having looked at some diagrams, seems to have the part that would contain the detonator closed and intact) that the detonator may be live. How would I go about finding this out, and what would I do about it?
 
I would suggest to be on the cautious side and phone the Police and take advice from them and leave them alone till they have been checked out.
 
Surely the most likely outcome then would be I'd never see either of them again, right?

Does anyone know how much of a bang a fuse can make on its own? How big of a charge is the detonator in one of these things?
 
Hello Wiggles,
Whilst safety is paramount, you really need somebody with more knowledge that your local PC. He is likely to confiscate them just for the hell of it.
Did you buy them from a reputable source who could put your mind at rest? Alternatively is there a militaria dealer in your area who might check your fuzes for you?
Regards, Dave.
 
I bought them both at an antiques fair, from two different blokes, neither of whom were specialists in militaria, and seemed to have knowledge of the subject lmost as limited as my own.

To be honest, it didn't occur to me until I got home that fuses might be dangerous. In my mind, shells go off, fuses are just the the trigger.

I don't know of any militaria dealers locally, let alone ordnance guys.

I have one more confession of stupidity. If you scan down to the diagram of the number 80 fuse in the PDF I posted below, you can see the small screw in the bottom that seems to lead into the area where the charge is. I removed that screw, then put it back in again. I of course wont be messing with it anymore, but does that prove anything either way? Would black powder have come out, if it had been live?

[ame="http://www.scribd.com/doc/25476222/WW1-Artillery-Fuses-and-Their-Mechanism"]WW1 Artillery Fuses and Their Mechanism[/ame]
 
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I'm more of a grenade collector so not too sure what effect the charge would have in one of yours. I know that a grenade det would quite happily remove your hand for you. Your choice at the end of the day mate, but is it worth it?
I know that the majority of PCs would have no idea, but the Police are the first point of call for things that go bang.
 
I'm getting an expert opinion as we speak.

The likelihood is they are perfectly safe. They were bought from antiques dealers who clearly thought they were inert, and I had no reason to doubt them. I just like to be absolutely certain about these things.

In the event that any concerns are raised by the person who's looking at them for me, I'll call the police straight away.
 
I just received confirmation that both these fuses have been fired, and are therefore inert. That's a load off my mind anyway!

Excuse my ignorance everybody!
 
There is no such thing as "ignorance" in the ordnance field in my mind. No one knows everything and never trust those who say they do. I've been associated with the EOD field for over 40 years and cringe when I hear the term "EOD expert". It has been my experience that when someone in EOD addresses themselves as an expert they have less than 10 fingers. Knowing a lot about ordnance doesn't necessarily make you an expert. Being careful and safe are paramont in this business. Many an INERT item has been found to have an explosive component in it. Every day is a learning day in this game. I do have to qualify my first statement though, because there are a very few who are ignorant of the dangers of even a small amount of explosives. Those are the ones that hurt themselves or others. You were careful, sought advice and got your answer. Enjoy the fuzes!

Bob
 
No 80 fuze

Hi,
little explanation,
if your PTTF is fired, the hole for gas escape must be open (see pic). If it is open, that will say that the powder train is burned and normally the PN charge also.
BUT you have alltime a percussion mechanism with firing pin and primer. It is never sure that this primer is burned with the deflagration of the PN charge. More, if the fuze is fired, the percussion mechanism is armed. It can function on each time with a bad manipulation.

DON'T TAKE RISK !

Yoda
 

Attachments

  • UK Fuze No 80 Explic-01.JPG
    UK Fuze No 80 Explic-01.JPG
    10.8 KB · Views: 37
I agree completely with EODGUY.
For me an EOD expert is a technician who have his ten fingers,

who have a great experience in the world of ammunitions and explosives,

who know that a munition is always dangerous, not only by his explosion risk (if you let tumble a AP-T on your feet, you can broke it !) but is also dangerous only with the toxicity of the payload,

who is humble enough to consider that the munition can win the "game",

and who has finish with this job and is pensioner (lucky guy).

That's a EOD expert. It is surely not somebody who think he know all about the question. It's a guy who can ask a question on another EOD man about a problem.
We are and we must stay a great family without considerations about nationality, phylosophy, skincolour or other differences.

That's what I think.
(sorry for my poor english, I hope it is comprehensible)

Yoda
 
time and percussion fuzes

No. 80 is a T & P fuze, the time is started by a detonator firing when the shell is accelrated up the gun barrel and the percusion goes off if the shell comes to earth before the time has runout. The time part going off in the air should also set off the percussion detonator so in theory the fired fuze is inert. The small oval plates covering holes in the timing rings part blow out when the time is started and when the fuze functions the charge in the shell the disc in the bottom of the fuze will be blown out or ruptured. Most fuzes found are fired but some obviously wont be, any taken from a wreck will be live and the sea will NOT have made them harmless. My guess is a detonator from a fuze if set off in ones fingers would remove parts of them and put metal fragments into ones face. If not tampered with they are not likely to go off, its people applying heat to get fuzes apart that get the nasty suprises and brown trousers. 2pr
 
2pounder said:
No. 80 is a T & P fuze, the time is started by a detonator firing when the shell is accelrated up the gun barrel and the percusion goes off if the shell comes to earth before the time has runout. The time part going off in the air should also set off the percussion detonator so in theory the fired fuze is inert. The small oval plates covering holes in the timing rings part blow out when the time is started and when the fuze functions the charge in the shell the disc in the bottom of the fuze will be blown out or ruptured. Most fuzes found are fired but some obviously wont be, any taken from a wreck will be live and the sea will NOT have made them harmless. My guess is a detonator from a fuze if set off in ones fingers would remove parts of them and put metal fragments into ones face. If not tampered with they are not likely to go off, its people applying heat to get fuzes apart that get the nasty suprises and brown trousers. 2pr
Click to expand...

One of my fuzes has certainly been fired. The other, almost certainly. In both cases, I can confirm that there is no powder in the base of the shell, the area where the charge which detonates the shell is located (in one case because the fuze is hollow where this would be, and in the other, because the 80 has a small hole in the disk and a screw which can be removed to reveal a cavity behind where the charge would have been.

Several people have now looked at the fuzes, and told me that they are either certain, or reasonably sure (depending on the person) that both fuzes are inert. I am totally confident that they are safe based on this, but in order to be absolutely certain, I am also taking steps to have somebody local look at them for me.

Again, thanks to everybody for your help.
 
Am I right when I say, that a fired No. 80 for example, may only contain a primer and not a detonator? Is this primer dangerous or is it like the one in a normal rifle cartridge, maybe a little bit larger?
 
detonator

The item in a fuze that starts the train of combustion or explosion is called a detonator. It is much more powerful than a rifle primer. They are sensitive so as to be easily set off by impact or heat. Wont answer the question is it dangerous? to me it depends how you view danger or how stupid you want to be. 2pr
 
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