Found today, Can anyone help with ID please????

[3pinplug]

Hi all
Found this today when out with the metal detector, its about 60mm in length and 13mm in diameter at the wide end.
Interested to know what type it is, what would have fired it and why its reddy brown in colour, previously ownly found .303 projectiles and there normally green in colour when you dig them up.

Hope you can help?

Many thanks

Mark

 

[hicky1300]

Not sure about the 60mm length but would guess it is a .50 cal HMG bullet.
By the way the `green` colour on your .303`s is caled verdigris & it is a form of corrosion typical to copper. Post WWI .303`s were copper jacketed.
Surprised your latest find is not green as it appears to be copper jacket. Check it with a magnet as it appears to have rust on the base so might be an AP round?
Good luck with the metal detecting but rember - if you`re not sure don`t touch!

 

[TonyE]

it is difficult to tell from the photograph, but might it not be a .55 inch Boys Mark II armour piercing bullet? My basis for this is that it appears to be flat based and .50 BMG are normally boat tailed, plus Cupro-nickel jacketed bullets (like the Boys) tend to go a brown colour in the ground whilst the copper jacketed Brownings would go green, as you say. Also note the rust at the base of the bullet.

Regards
TonyE

 

[hicky1300]

Tony - Wasn`t the MKII Boys .55 Tungsten cored? If so no rust!

 

[TonyE]

No, both the W Mark I and the W Mark II had hardened steel cores. To the best of my knowledge, no British SAA had tungsten carbide cores.

Regards
TonyE

 

[3pinplug]

Re: Posts

Hi
TonyE and hickey 1300, firstly thankyou for coming back to my post very good of you.

Checked and it is magnetic, have attached the best image camera will allow of the end, hope this helps with the ID.

Regards

Mark

 

[archmoco]

I would have said Boys projectile too, but at 60+mm surely a Mark1 AP, mark 2 would be shorter....the only thing that has thrown me is I would have expected to see 2 rings.

I suppose the weight of the bullet would give it away

I've attached link to 2 fire practice rounds but it gives the same idea. I've never seen a .55 tracer version, would the black end of the projectile be burning from tracer compound? but I suppose a tracer would have a larger pocket.

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/74840-Boys-Practice-Mk-2

 

[smle2009]

50 cal tracer or incendiary ?

sorry about the photo,can do better tomorow when light permits

Tony

 

[Chris 42 RQ]

50 Calibre Tracer or AP-Tracer

There are two things about your projectile that aid identification, one is the rifling pattern-typical of 50 Cal Browning !
Second one is that the projectile has only one crimp groove whereas a .55 Boys has two crimping/cannelure grooves and are most usually made in Cupro Nickle so appear to be silver in colour.
The rust at the end (base) is very likely either the steel core insert rusting or the results of the Tracer composition residue acting on the body.
Picture 1 is an unfired American 1942 produced Tracer projectile
Picture 2 is a fired British 1950s Armour Piercing Tracer projectile-no rifling as it has been fired from a "shot out" barrel. (experimental item so no classification available)

 

[3pinplug]

RE: Posts

Hi all

The photo postedby Smle2009 has nailed it, have checked and the single ring on mine is also at 22mm a shown in the photo. So is this from a .50 SMG???, if it is what are the significance of the grooves on it, have found some .303 in the past with these on as well??

Also, any ideas why this would laying in a field in the middle of nowhere on the approach to a village with onkly a few hundred occupants. Were these ever used for anti aircraft?

Sorry for all the questions guys but trying to slowly biuild up my knowledge as this is all fairly new to me.

Do you want me to weigh it???

Thanks

Mark

 

[smle2009]

Hi Mark,
it is indeed a .50" BMG(Browning Machine Gun) and as Chris says an early WW2 tracer,the grooves are marks left from the rifling from the barrel of the gun.
As you live in Kent it is possible that it was from airfield defence or even possibly from aircraft during WW2(not sure what Allied aircraft used 50 cal as it is not my subject)
Maybe intresting to check the history of the area you are finding these items in respect to WW2.
No problem at all with lots of questions Mark,that's what this forum is all about and makes it so intresting

Cheers
Tony

 

[smle2009]

Just for intrest photos of a modern .50(left) compared with a WW2 .50(both tracer) showing the 'boat tail' mentioned by TonyE above,and also a complete .50" tracer round dated 1943.


Tony

 

[TonyE]

I think I was having a bad day when I posted about the Boys. Not only did I type Mark II when I meant Mark I but I overlooked the two cannelures! That plus the fact I forgot the earlier .50 BMG tracers were flat based only compounds my idiocy. Mea culpa!

I would say though that cupro-nickel jacketed bullets do tend to go brown when tarnished and often do look like gilding metal.

Chris - I am intrigued by your post-war fired tracer you say was fired from a shot out barrel? Presumably this is a Kynoch bullet? Can you post a picture of the base of the bullet please?

Many thanks
TonyE

 

[hicky1300]

More likely this was fired BY an aircraft!
Which to me makes your find all the more interesting.
Given your part of the world most likely from air to air combat.
Not sure we were so hard up we were relying on .50 BMG for AA work!
The generally sound condition would imlpy it never found its intended target & fell from the sky.
I`m still sure I read somewhere that W MKII Boyes had Tungsten cores!!?
Anyway - looks like we are all learning something from this thread.
Again, good find

 

[TonyE]

Although air to air combat is a possibility, I would say unlikely as not many RAF fighters carried .50 Machine guns. A U.S. bomber testing its guns is another possibility though.

You may well have read that the Boys had a tungsten core, there is a lot of misinformation out there! Both the W Mark I and II had hardened steel cores but there were experimental rounds with Tungsten Carbide cores. Attached are the Design Department drawings for the W Mark II showing the steel core and a 1940 experimental TC cored bullet.

Also attached is the picture of the proposed W Mark III, never adopted, which also had a TC core. I also have the drawing for that.

Regards
TonyE

 

[3pinplug]

HI all,

Thank you to you all for the information / discussion relating to my find, I am finding this very interesting and definitely learning a lot.
So to recap its from a .50 BMG (browning Machine Gun) and its a tracer round?

 

[7.63 Mauser]

Hi

It is a 50 Brow.Ive found several of this projectiles in my area with the same colour and in the same condition as yours.
All of them more then 65 years old.Mayby this one is from an Aircraft.

Cheers
Josh

 

[Chris 42 RQ]

I think I was having a bad day when I posted about the Boys. Not only did I type Mark II when I meant Mark I but I overlooked the two cannelures! That plus the fact I forgot the earlier .50 BMG tracers were flat based only compounds my idiocy. Mea culpa!

I would say though that cupro-nickel jacketed bullets do tend to go brown when tarnished and often do look like gilding metal.

Chris - I am intrigued by your post-war fired tracer you say was fired from a shot out barrel? Presumably this is a Kynoch bullet? Can you post a picture of the base of the bullet please?

Many thanks
TonyE

Tony I am really sorry but the whole has been "moved on" with the rest of my collection, I have no idea who is the new owner of these items.
All I can tell you is that there were an awful lot of them, maybe running into thousands that were spread all over the shop which we recovered during a range clean up.
They were Kynoch made as a fellow collector had a draw full of the original cases.
Some 10 thousand were fired in one sitting !
PM'd