German 1905 37mm x 94R C97/98, a candidate for sectioning?

[BMG50]

I have a German 1905 37mm x 94R C97/98 but unfortuantly is in quite a mankey state, the head as you can see is corroded around the top of the driving band with an attempted filler job (which i hate). The case which has some writing inscribed on it (Juventi de la guevie 1914 Jules) not sure if the first letter is a J or an F but the writing is done in fine period fancy style hand writing, but unfortuanly is covered in many dings scratches, the rim distored in places and needs a very good clean. As well as a needy clean up, i was thinking about using this abused piece as candidate for sectioning, what do members think?
Any one know what would be the correct base fuze for this head?

 

[Gspragge]

You have nothing to lose--- the base was a zinc type alloy plug with an igniter press fitted into it.

 

[Falcon]

I agree - this item will look better sectioned.

 

[kz11gr]

I have a German 1905 37mm x 94R C97/98 but unfortuantly is in quite a mankey state, the head as you can see is corroded around the top of the driving band with an attempted filler job (which i hate). The case which has some writing inscribed on it (Juventi de la guevie 1914 Jules) not sure if the first letter is a J or an F but the writing is done in fine period fancy style hand writing, but unfortuanly is covered in many dings scratches, the rim distored in places and needs a very good clean. As well as a needy clean up, i was thinking about using this abused piece as candidate for sectioning, what do members think?
Any one know what would be the correct base fuze for this head?View attachment 71651View attachment 71650

hello
question :
the case is stamped on the left X or XI ?
and the number under is 160 or 168 ?

thank you

 

[BMG50]

hello
question :
the case is stamped on the left X or XI ?
and the number under is 160 or 168 ?

thank you

The case has XI and the number is 168. After cleaning up the case it looks like its been fired as there is minimal necking and there are extraction marks on the case.

As with the base fuze how rare are these, are they hard to get hold off?

 

[BMG50]

Anyone have a picture of the base fuze, top and bottom would be nice, as i may need to replicate one to finish off the sectioned piece. I have the sizes that will be taken from the shell head its self, The thread may be a bit tricky to match.

 

[Gspragge]

I have a damaged primer for the case with epoxy in it, you could maybe do something with it ? The igniter is a press fit into the base, you might want to use aluminum to replicate the grey alloy base on the kind you have.

 

[BMG50]

Many Thanks Gspragge, I will be in need of a replacement primer, let me know what you want for it. And many thanks for the pictures, looks easy enough to make just need to figure out the thread size which i calculated at around 24mm x .75, i assume that the sizes for this German round would be metric as would be the French 37mm rounds unless they were imperial, what do you think?

 

[Alpini]

...i calculated at around 24mm x .75, i assume that the sizes for this German round would be metric...

Until some years ago I thought the same, but I did some research about this thematic in the past. Nearly all german military threads until the end of 1st WW did not have metric threads. The very old german shells until the 1880's had BSW threads. Later just until some years after WW1, non standard threads were used. Most of them had a metrical diameter, a pitch in inches (TPI) and unusual large angles of 70. Your 37 mm base screw is 24 mm x 24 tpi (I have no information about the angle, but my 55 Withworth gauge fits well).

 

[BMG50]

I checked again and calculated that 24 tpi works out at 1mm pitch thread, taps and dies still available on ebay.

 

[Alpini]

I would recommend using a lathe to cut the thread. Even my german lathe can cut all sorts of Withworth pitches so it should certainly be no problem in the UK Anyway you need a lathe to turn the shape of the plug. And with a lathe you can turn the plug until it fits well.

The original material should have been a zinc/tin alloy (white metal) which seems nearly impossible to get as bars for turning today (I could also need some of it) :-(

 

[EOD]

How about getting the alloy and melting it down and pouring it into pieces of metal pipe, later extract it and then use it on a lathe?

 

[BMG50]

Good idea about using a lathe to screw cut the thread, unfortuantly one of my lathes that screw cuts is out of action being restored. I was also thinking about melting this type of alloy into a bar shaped mould. Would this alloy be similar to pewter, if so i could make a mould of that section and cast it in pewter as lathing such metals can be a bit tricky, maybe this is how these parts were made on mass.

 

[BMG50]

After careful cleaning using Hydrocloric acid dip followed by a phoshate finish on the rusty head and a light dip cleaning the case, I managed to section the piece with a fine slitting saw, so now i have a 1/4 and a 3/4 part to play with. As well as sorting the base fuze out and the percussion cap in the shell case, would anyone know what type of propellant the case would be, would this be smokeless or Blackpowder? If smokeless, would these be the strand type, like spaghetti or flakes. What type of powder would the charge in the head be as i would like to make a decent replica of the propellant that was originaly used for these sectioned pieces.

 

[BMG50]

Would any one know if this round used black powder for both projectile and propellant or was it all nitro based? Anyone have any section pictures how the charge was formed in the case ie in a bage etc or lose powder, if nitro what type of flakes was it?

 

[Gspragge]

This is a piece of propellent that remained in a 37x101 case with the same kind of projectile still crimped on. It has a bit of a curve but flat is 52mm long, paper thin like heavy writing paper, translucent colour of cordite. The projectile has a solid filling, I'm thinking a metallic sort of grey colour from one I saw, but I'm rather vague on this point, but definitely not powder fill, I imagine these worked like a road flare. Unless somebody knows for sure, maybe a neutral gray or something to show up against the metal sides.

The projectile is too low in the case, match the crimps in the case with the groove in the projectile, just about 1/4" space between the case and band. Position the projectile with the crimp indents in th case in the groove, using a piece of wire or something thin and round place this over the crimp and tap it and force the case indent/crimp into the groove in the projectile this will hold things in place and add to the visual effect as you have a crimp indent on each side of the sectioned case, it's just right.

 

[pysall]

Projectile has a mid-grey, fine grained solid filling..... with a Kaiser's crown embossed in the end ! (visible beneath the brass plug when removed).