German 75mm shells for British Guns?

[Vollketten]

Today I found this quote from a veterans account of his time in the US Army in North Africa early 1942.

"During one expedition to the front, Coleman came across a German ammunition dump that had been abandoned but not destroyed for some reason. There were thousands of rounds of German 75mm ammunition. To Coleman it looked like British Five-Pounder cannon ammunition, but it was definitely German. Coleman found that by machining .040 of an inch off of the rotator band on the German ammunition, it would fire in the British Five-Pounders. He reported this to Colonel Gruver (later of Gruver amphibious tank fame) who reported it to the British who immediately collected and modified the ammunition. The British were especially short on Five-Pounder ammunition at this time. No doubt the Germans never appreciated the irony of being shot up with their own ammunition!"

I have not heard of a 5 pounder gun in 1942 before and the dimension machined off is quite specific.
So what I'm asking is that if anyone can tell me if this is even possible and if so which gun we are talking about here.

Could it be the twenty-five pounder he means and is it even possible?
Has anyone heard of this before?

 

[tankbarrell]

Captured projectiles were used in 75mm guns after a small mod to the driving band. No doubt this is the origin of this story.
Found it! Dick Hunnicutt mentions it in his Sherman book. He credits a Major Northy, an Australian serving with the RAOC with the idea. It was to give the 75mm fitted in the M3 Grant an explosive filled AP projo as the M61 was not yet in service. 17000 rounds were converted, a small number of which were smoke and HE.

 

[Quatermass]

Would ex French 75mm M1897 ammunition thus modified be usable in the Grant/Sherman 75mm guns?

 

[Vollketten]

Captured projectiles were used in 75mm guns after a small mod to the driving band. No doubt this is the origin of this story.
Found it! Dick Hunnicutt mentions it in his Sherman book. He credits a Major Northy, an Australian serving with the RAOC with the idea. It was to give the 75mm fitted in the M3 Grant an explosive filled AP projo as the M61 was not yet in service. 17000 rounds were converted, a small number of which were smoke and HE.

ah, those cunning Aussies again. Thank you

 

[bacarnal]

Would ex French 75mm M1897 ammunition thus modified be usable in the Grant/Sherman 75mm guns?

You wouldn't have to modify a thing since the rounds the U.S. had in WWI were virtually identical to the French, and the M2/M3 guns of the the Grant Sherman were off shoots of the Mle 1898/M1898. The only problem would be the fuzing, which was, (though we used it in WWI), sometime after the war, not considered bore safe by the U.S.. Or at least that is what I have been led to believe. Cheers, Bruce.

 

[HAZORD]

Back to your original question about 5 Pdr. Anything in a 5 Pdr size (57mm and smaller) would not work with 75mm. I've never heard of a 5Pdr either so the whole 5Pdr thing sounds confused. One size of UK 6 Pdr is the same as the U.S. 57mm, and all 6Pdr projos are 57mm. The 13Pdr up through 17 Pdr projectiles are in the 75mm/76mm-3 inch range, so 76mm projos could be turned to fit 75mm, if really required. The U.S. used 6 inch (152mm) navy projectiles in the 155mm guns for some applications.


I'm thinking someone was dyslexic, and/or passing on a story they heard and not remembered correctly. 57mm versus 75mm etc.

FYI, the Germans used captured guns and even manufactured ammo and reloaded ammo for them. The Germans assigned a serial number to each model of gun, so their cartridge cases have a serial number on them to match the gun they should be fired in. The German produced ammo for foreign guns are very rare and very desirable to collectors.

Likewise, the Japanese bought many guns from the British during the interwar years, so they have cartridge cases that match The British cases. The 12Pdr is one, and I know of a Brit 4.7 inch that matches the Jap 120mm, and the 2Pdr Antiaircraft gun.

 

[Tony Williams]

I've never heard of a 5Pdr either so the whole 5Pdr thing sounds confused.

I have noticed such errors a few times myself, usually the result of someone who knows little about guns and ammo misunderstanding or misremembering something they were told.

It is particularly common across designation systems, e.g. inch, metric and (as in this case) "pounders". I have seen "30 calibre rifles" changed to "30mm rifles", which would be rather a shock to the system.... :tinysmile_cry_t2:

 

[25pounder]

25 pounder = 88 .6 mm