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German wire cutting cartridge

C

collector60

New Member
Hi everyone, please bear with me for a moment, this is my first post.
I attended a gun show today and there was a very nice display of WW1 German ordnance and various other imperial bits and pieces.
One piece however caught my eye, a rifle cartridge designed to cut barbed wire.
It appeared to be a standard brass cartridge for the WW1 German service rifle ,but,where the normal projectile should have been there was a piece of steel rod in its place which protruded from the neck of the cartridge by about 50mm.
In this case the steel rod was heavily pitted with corrosion.
I have never seen anything like it before, does anyone have any information on the success of such a design ?
I imagine the rod simply began to tumble as soon as it left the muzzle of the rifle and went through the wire like a buzz saw ( in theory )
Any information on this unusual round would be much appreciated
 
Wire cutters

As I said in my post on the GWF Forum you are quoting, I cannot seem to find a decent picture for you. I was sure there was one in the Brandt/Hamann/Windisch 7.9mm book but I can't find it.

I have seen them often enough at cartridge shows but as I said, they have been faked. I shall be at the main European ECRA show in Switzerland in September so will hopefully be able to get a picture of one there.

Regards
TonyE
 
Not the best picture in the world, but you get the idea. Tony is correct in saying these have been faked, but I think this is the real deal. I got it in a box of WWI era ammo that had not been opened in years. The headstamp is S E 8 14. The cylinder on mine is crimped into the neck of the case by a series of longitudinal crimps. The overall length is about 122mm which as near as I can tell falls about in the middle of the lengths reported. Mine is quite pitted whicch is undestandable if it was lying around for awhile. The rod was made of soft unhardened steel and was made slightly under bore size. It began to tumble, the intent being to cut barbed wire. At short ranges it was also a very lethal projectile, but not for precision aiming. Hopefully someone else has a better photo for you.
 

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I have no idea if these rounds have existed or not, but am thinking it from a technical point;
-First, to hit the wire when firing one round is quite difficult, these should rather be fired with an MG but due to length it's not possible.
-Second, if it hits a wire does it cut it at all? If the wire is tightly spanned at a short distance - maybe, but if the wire is in loose loops as effectively used I guess it would just bend and then expand back.

Possibly these were tested but due to poor result never used in quantity?
 
Can't quote my references at this point, but I remember reading in several documents/books that they were used with limited success. The tumbled and had sufficient mass and velocity to cut the wires, but you had to be lucky to hit the wire. Certainly better than advancing across no-man's land and then exposing yourself to use wirecutters to do the job, but at the same time you would have to fire a lot of rounds to be effective I would assume. Also imagine they gave quite a kick to the weapon.
 
I have read that a row of troops all chambered one of these and fired a volley to try to clear barbed wire in front of them. The rifle bolt also had to be removed to chamber one.
 
Still thinking that usually there was not only one wire to hit but tens of them, if not more.
I think I have to make a couple these rounds and test myself how they work on my neighbour farmers barbed wire fence:wink:
 
Thanks guys, I knew there had to be someone out there who knew a little about these things, like Tmine35, I have to wonder just how successful these things would be, perhaps they were fired in massed volleys.
Anyhow, its an interesting piece of history I had not seen before
 
Does not surprise me one bit as there were literally hundreds of devices with the intention of munching up the barbed wire, one of the biggest obstacles of WW1. Everything from scads of cutters to shells, bangalore torpedos and the list goes on and on. Getting through the barbed wire was certainly high on the list of obstacles that had to be penetrated. Though I must admit this is the first i've heard of a cratridge for that purpose. When the tank came out I suppose infantry following the tank in close proximity eas very successful. One grenade that comes to mind for munching the wire was the French Barbeles grenade. Damned trecherous stuff that barbed wire...Dano
 
Not really a far fetched idea -

It's not any different than a Navel 24 Pr bar shot fired to cut the rigging on the opposing ship. Unfortunately the small capacity of the rifle round and the masses of wire would doom it. In the end HE bursting at or above the surface did the same thing.
 
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