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Has a V30 mini grenade ever existed?

J

jrpett

Member
I'm well aware of the V40. But has there ever been a V30. I can't find a reference to it anywhere.
I'm trying to determine the validity of these statements:
"Actually, those SOG/SAU golfballs were the earlier wire wound core type, the V40 was an improvement."
"I was 23rd SAU, and we had the V30 with the wire interiors"

Could there be any truth to this?
Are there any Vietnam Vets here who know what the "SAU" is/was? I've also never heard of that unit before.

--John
 
Hi John,
V40 is your man, he should have the answers to both of your questions.
Best regards Weasel.
 
I agree with Weasel.
Either Mark-V40 or Jeff-US Subs will know about this. I sure hope its NOT true. That'll set off another mad hunt on my part if it IS true. Like I need that...
 
Looking in to it. I have seen them larger but not smaller. This doesn't mean that they are not out there however. I'm looking into it as we speack!
 
The V40 is actually 37mm in diameter. If you dig deeper into the history of the V40 you will find that the Dutch had the best grenade on the market during Vietnam and after for a few years after. In other words John, it was built to kill and in killing it did it very well. You could say that they "Over" designed this grenade. I'll keep getting you more info if you want? As far as the usage goes in Vietnam, both SEAL's and SOG used them as muh as they could because they were so small that you could carry a canteen pouch full of them. I have no idea what "SAU" is. I do not believe it to have been a SOG term. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Ask him what "SNA" John if you can. I'd like to know too. He mentions the 23rd. That is the Americal Division, with a lot of supporting batallions attached to it. They probably had "LRRP" Teams with in each Company or at least in the Battallion level. Rangers too before the LRRP Teams became Rangers near the end of 1969.
 
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One other item is that he could of been getting his grenades mixed up. Maybe he was trying to mix a M30 or M33 to a V40. He is also saying that it had a wire in it or wrappedn inside? I believe he might be talking about an M26 series including an M30 that has an "IMPACT Fuse? Don't know guys. Maybe SNU could be a Support/ing N______ Unit of some sorts? Like to know more John if you are able to talk to him? I can shoot some questions to you on what you should ask him if you'd like too.

Let me know either way?
 
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This thread could prove to be very interesting.
 

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To my knowledge there was nothing fielded or experimented with smaller than the V40 in that time period. The 40 refers to the diameter of the grenade, 40mm. There was also an MN45 (45mm) and a V60 (60mm), plus rifle grenade adapters for the V40. While as we have seen in earlier threads a number of countries have tried variations, these all appear to have been variations of the V40, not something prior.

A wrapped wire grenade the same size or smaller than 40mm would be very difficult, I doubt that the technology of the day would have made it feasible. There were several patterns of pre-stamped fragmentation for the V40, at least one was spiral. I think I've posted them before but I can take some fresh photos when I get home tonight.
 
US-Subs said:
To my knowledge there was nothing fielded or experimented with smaller than the V40 in that time period. The 40 refers to the diameter of the grenade, 40mm. There was also an MN45 (45mm) and a V60 (60mm), plus rifle grenade adapters for the V40. While as we have seen in earlier threads a number of countries have tried variations, these all appear to have been variations of the V40, not something prior.

A wrapped wire grenade the same size or smaller than 40mm would be very difficult, I doubt that the technology of the day would have made it feasible. There were several patterns of pre-stamped fragmentation for the V40, at least one was spiral. I think I've posted them before but I can take some fresh photos when I get home tonight.
Click to expand...

Yes, I would appreciate some photos of the different styles of V40's, especially the spiral type. I have seen several photos of prototype V40's but I don't know if the spiral type was one of them. Also, does anyone know the earliest date that the V40 was known to have been issued and/or used in Vietnam?

Thanks,
--John
 
The V40 was manufactured by NWM in The Netherlands. It has always been my understanding that we purchased ours from the factory as needed, but discussion on this forum has raised the question of whether we played with our own manufacturing/prototypes. I do not know the date when NWM first started production or when the US first acquired ours from them, but some of the Dutch collectors follow the company history much more closely and may be able to provide the information.
 
As discussed. There may be more fragmentation patterns, but these are the ones I have in the collection. A square pattern, dot pattern and then a top, bottom and side view of the spiral pattern. Last picture is of some of the other pieces discussed, including a couple of the MN45. Note that on some of the practice versions the MN45 was designated MN46, just as the V40 was the V41.


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My son just pointed out to me that he doesn't think that it is spiral, but a circular pattern that appears to be spiral due to the cut of the edge. On closer examination he may be right. Time to update the reading glasses - again.
 
OK, I made the following post (I hope the info was correct) and included the first picture provided by US-Subs in his last post. I also included a link to this thread:

I'm into collecting ordnance, and I'm also a member of several ordnance related forums with several members that know any and everything there is to know about ordnance. None of them has ever heard of a V30. The number after the "V" refers to the diameter of the sphere, although the V40 is actually 37mm in diamenter. At 30mm in diameter, it would have been smaller than the fuze & spoon assembly and been more of a hazard to the user than the enemy. The pull ring alone is 40mm in diameter.
The only known "mini" type grenades made by NWM were the V40, V41(practice V40), V45, and the V60. There was no known V30 ever prototyped or produced. There were several fragmentation matrix types for the V40 as shown below. There were square patterns and a dimple pattern similar to that in the modern day M67 but there was never any known spiral wire fragmentation matrix used on the V40 or any of NWM's mini grenades for that matter. If a V30 actually did exist, I'm sure these guys at this website sure would love to hear about it.
Also, what does SAU stand for?


This is the reply I received:

"The V30 was 35mm diameter and when they went from the wire to the breaking cast shell they hopped the number up but the size was about the same. Trying to remember how the cases were marked forty something years later seems a bit difficult, but those were pure test use in the field, and the wire did not always fragment uniformly, so they took the same spoon/time/charge and went to the new design you couldn't really tell unless you looked at the number. I seem to remember the V was in dark red on the 30, yellow on the 40, but cannot remember it well enough to swear to it."


Does this add anything more to possibly find an answer? Has anybody ever encountered a grenade like this? Also, I never did receive an answer to what SAU meant.
 
I have yet to see where a V40 is 40mm in diameter? They are approximately 37mm, not 40mm. They came in to our use during Vietnam by Ben "Conrad" Baker (CISO) and were purchased with CISO's funding. This happened in 1968 for the Navy SEAL's in Vietnam and it was the same time for MACVSOG. Someone told me a long time ago that the V40 (37mm) was developed from the fragmentation ball in the bottom of the 40mm grenade (HE) round as was used by the the M79 and the XM148 at that time. The Dutch then placed a Bouchon (mouse trap) igniter on it and sold it Commercially. The ones given to SOG and the SEAL's were of the internal notched pattern. The last of the V40's were used up sometime around the mid 1970's by SF, SEALS, and Rangers. They were the last remaining stocks. Commercial sales had not developed enough for the V40 to satisfy NWM and production ceased in 1972. This is what I know to have happened in Vietnam.
 
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I'm sure I remember reading somewhere once that the V40 grenade was used in small numbers in the South African border war.

Is this correct or just a trick of the mind?
 
Sure from the Canadian Army. About the South African, the army has supply from Belgian and Portugal, maybe also from Netherland.Grenades.gif
 
Seems like one of the Dutch guys showed this before, but I cannot find it. Here is a fresh scan of my flyer.

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