Help with detailed ID please

[exat808]

I will be examining these 2 articles in the next week or so.
German fuzes are not my specialist subject and I would appreciate any/all advice regarding each please.
My knowledge is limited to knowing that 1 is a Number 17 fuze.
Thank you, in anticipation.

 

[sgdbdr]

Hi,


Look there : http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/downloads.php?do=file&id=631

Regards,

S.

 

[pzgr40]

I posted it on the BOCN some years ago in the cutaway section

Regards , DJH

 

[Bellifortis]

Hallo,
that are very beautiful condition fuzes. Yes 2 fuzes. Mostly people speak only of the No.17. But in reality you have on the top a "El.AZ. (17)" electric fuze to which is screwed a "LZ.Zus.Z. 17(Langzeit-Zusatz-Zuender 17)" mechanical fuze. The fuze in your foto has a black plastic ? shroud clipped on with that designation. I have not seen this before. You write that you will be examining these fuzes. For what purpose or what are you looking for ? The original fuze technical manual and pzgr40's beautiful section, both mentioned above, will give all info needed, for most purposes.
Regards,
Bellifortis.

 

[exat808]

Hi Bellifortis,Thank you for your detailed reply.The 2 fuzes are in a collection that will be subject to a "Free From Explosive" inspection by my company. I have obtained a copy of the technical manual and have also examined the picture of the excellent sectioned fuze by Pzgr40. If you have any further information it would be very welcome.

 

[Fusse2004]

Hi exat808 This is exactly your LZZ 17 17 with LZtZusZ Greeting Harry

 

[wyngo]

Hallo,
that are very beautiful condition fuzes. Yes 2 fuzes. Mostly people speak only of the No.17. But in reality you have on the top a "El.AZ. (17)" electric fuze to which is screwed a "LZ.Zus.Z. 17(Langzeit-Zusatz-Zuender 17)" mechanical fuze. The fuze in your foto has a black plastic ? shroud clipped on with that designation. I have not seen this before. You write that you will be examining these fuzes. For what purpose or what are you looking for ? The original fuze technical manual and pzgr40's beautiful section, both mentioned above, will give all info needed, for most purposes.
Regards,
Bellifortis.

The top is arming electrical part and the LZZ is the mechanical clockwork part...but is only one fuze.

...this is a wonderful topic of ZuS40 of Pzgr40.
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/4053-ZUS-40-(Anti-withdrawal-device-40)-Germany-WW2

Best regards Francesco

 

[Bellifortis]

Hi Francesco,
you are right, one can not go without the other, but the germans are very precise. The upper electrical part is the electrical Rheinmetallfuze proper. The lower, mechanical time part is named in German a Zusatzzuender (added fuze). So by german technical nomenclature its 2 fuzes, also one can not be used without the other.
Regards,
Bellifortis.

The top is arming electrical part and the LZZ is the mechanical clockwork part...but is only one fuze.

...this is a wonderful topic of ZuS40 of Pzgr40.
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/4053-ZUS-40-(Anti-withdrawal-device-40)-Germany-WW2

Best regards Francesco

 

[wyngo]

Hi Francesco,
you are right, one can not go without the other, but the germans are very precise. The upper electrical part is the electrical Rheinmetallfuze proper. The lower, mechanical time part is named in German a Zusatzzuender (added fuze). So by german technical nomenclature its 2 fuzes, also one can not be used without the other.
Regards,
Bellifortis.

...The german is very precise, in technical and in detail...in the official publication, the mechanical part is an added part ( zusatz )but essential for the correct functioning of the Zunder 17( not El.AZ 17) ...in fact, the Zunder 17 (and variation) is composed of a El.Az17 (electric impact arming part, with pyrotecnic activator) and the LangezeitzusatzZunder 17 (employed, with minor changes, only in Z17A, Z17A*, Z17B, Z17b, Z17B* and with reduction of the gear, in Z17bm).
In german military official nomenclature not exist a technical publication on L.Z.Zus.Z.17...because this long delay mechanical part, not is employed as fuze, but only as mechanical delay component in air bomb fuze's.




Best regard Francesco

 

[Bellifortis]

Hi Bellifortis,Thank you for your detailed reply.The 2 fuzes are in a collection that will be subject to a "Free From Explosive" inspection by my company. I have obtained a copy of the technical manual and have also examined the picture of the excellent sectioned fuze by Pzgr40. If you have any further information it would be very welcome.

Hi exat808,
thank you for your answer. Now I have a few questions. What, in the eyes of the law in GB, is considered "Free of Expl." ? Does that mean 00 or an amount that bears no danger to any human handling the device, like a percussion cap or electric igniter ? Will you issue a certificate after your inspection and who is allowed to issue certificates like that in GB. Considering the case of your pictured fuzes. You can see that the base-closing-screw has been opened before with improvised tooling, damaging the 2 pinholes slightly. Who will be responsible for any damages occuring during the inspection ? Judging from your fotos you should not have any problems with these, because they are in such a good, strippable condition and do not contain any difficult to reach spots with energetic material. By the way, the above mentioned technical manual says, that if a fuze had been attached to a live electric source, you should remove the booster, lay it aside and wait. If the condenser had recieved sufficient electric energy, the fuze will function, firing the percussion-cap after the set time. The result is a completely undamaged fuze free of all energetic material. That was meant for new fuzes 80 years ago.
Regards,
Bellifortis.

 

[exat808]

Hi Bellifortis,
I think that FFE has been discussed on BOCN in the past. I hope that the moderators will allow this thread on german Fuzes to go "off topic". The items in my pictures are part of a museum collection. In GB we have no FFE legislation in civilian explosives regulations. The military have an FFE process which also includes museum collections.
My company has been providing FFE services in the civilian sector for a number of years with the intention of providing professional, technical reassurance, by way of a certificate with our credentials included, to those possessing ordnance related articles that those articles do not contain explosives in such a quantity that would enable those explosives to perform in the way that they were intended to do so. We have insurance that will provide cover if we damage any item in our possession
Residual contents will always be a problem especially at trace levels. We do offer a full decontamination service for HE shells and bombs etc.
Back on thread......................Your additional information above is very useful, thank you.
Apologies again to the moderators for drifting off the topic.

 

[Bellifortis]

Hallo exat808,
thank you for your instructive answer. I know that I often wander off in a subject, but that's what makes the whole subject so interesting. To keep on track, I don't know if you understand german. If not, the german manual is not of so much help. To make things easy, there are only 5 positions in the fuze with energetic material: No.16 = Bridgewireigniter(25mg of electric-matchhead comp), No.20 = Burningcomp, No.21= Relay pyrot. comp. , No.24 = Delay comp. and No. 33 = percussion cap. I hope this will be of help to you. The No.'s refer to the drawing in the manual. Good luck with your job.
With kind regards,
Bellifortis.

 

[exat808]

Hi again Bellifortis,
I have a translation of the manual. Your information will be of great use.
I have 1 new image of items that I will examine next week.
Any more advice please?

 

[TimG]

exat808,

Fuze looks like a No. 131 except for the magazine.

http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threads/60430-131-fuze-with-gain

TimG

You've changed the image!

 

[exat808]

OOps. Sorry Tim, I put the wrong picture up.
Now changed from the nose fuze. Thank you anyway.