ID Needed for 37mm casing

[Austanker]

I have a 37 mm shell casing that my grandfather gave me when I was 7 years old , he told me it came from a French Renault tank and he grabbed it after " some chappie " threw a handfull out of the tank hatch alongside him in the trenches somewhere in France WW1





My first web search led me to here: http://www.the-amc.com/vmchk/Odds-and-Ends/DE-ACTIVATED-37-mm-MAXIM-SHELL-DATED-K-19-AUG-1918

It look identical to the casing pictured here , but they say it's from a Naval type pom-pom gun Maxim type , evidently these guns were also used as anti aircraft guns on the Western Front , not entirely convinced I delved deeper

Second search ended up here: http://www.xs4all.nl/~ator1149/wfm/ww1/stamps2.html#canon

Here I found the casing looks very similar to the pictued 37mm Hotchkiss casings , with the same screw in detonator plug , also I found out a bit about the markings on the base which are as follows:

K 10 JUNE 1918 ( maybe 13 ) Sp 255 119A and on the firing pin 6 or G Kp

Evidently K means KARLSRUHE and Sp255 means it was inspected in Spandau

The French Renault FT-17 tanks were armed with a naval type 37 mm Puteaux cannon and also a 37mm Hotchkiss gun my research has found sometimes they are called Maxim guns . The FT-17's came into action in 1918 I believe

The Germans also had 37mm Hotchkiss guns I found

So

What do I have here ?

Is it feasible that this shell was made in Germany , captured and used on the Western Front in a French ( or American ) FT-17 tank ?

Is this type of 37mm shell used on a variety of same calibre weapons from AA guns , anti tank guns and as the main gun on a French tank ?

Any info would be greatly appreciated , thanks

 

[18pounder]

I have a 37 mm shell casing that my grandfather gave me when I was 7 years old , he told me it came from a French Renault tank and he grabbed it after " some chappie " threw a handfull out of the tank hatch alongside him in the trenches somewhere in France WW1





My first web search led me to here: http://www.the-amc.com/vmchk/Odds-and-Ends/DE-ACTIVATED-37-mm-MAXIM-SHELL-DATED-K-19-AUG-1918

It look identical to the casing pictured here , but they say it's from a Naval type pom-pom gun Maxim type , evidently these guns were also used as anti aircraft guns on the Western Front , not entirely convinced I delved deeper

Second search ended up here: http://www.xs4all.nl/~ator1149/wfm/ww1/stamps2.html#canon

Here I found the casing looks very similar to the pictued 37mm Hotchkiss casings , with the same screw in detonator plug , also I found out a bit about the markings on the base which are as follows:

K 10 JUNE 1918 ( maybe 13 ) Sp 255 119A and on the firing pin 6 or G Kp

Evidently K means KARLSRUHE and Sp255 means it was inspected in Spandau

The French Renault FT-17 tanks were armed with a naval type 37 mm Puteaux cannon and also a 37mm Hotchkiss gun my research has found sometimes they are called Maxim guns . The FT-17's came into action in 1918 I believe

The Germans also had 37mm Hotchkiss guns I found

So

What do I have here ?

Is it feasible that this shell was made in Germany , captured and used on the Western Front in a French ( or American ) FT-17 tank ?

Is this type of 37mm shell used on a variety of same calibre weapons from AA guns , anti tank guns and as the main gun on a French tank ?

Any info would be greatly appreciated , thanks

hello mate

captured tanks were used by the enemy and it could be that german amunition was used in the 37mm gun.
The Renault FT tank always facinated me,as it was the first true modern tank.
With its rotating turret and modern design it really was advanced for its time.

I'm sure someone will give you all the technical details you need.

 

[Tony Williams]

I leave headstamp interpretation to those who know a lot more than I do, but I can tell you about the history of the 37x94R cartridge.

It was designed for a Hotchkiss 5-barrel revolving cannon and first emerged in 1885 (the headstamp often includes a "37/85" marking). The 37mm calibre was chosen as the 400g shells it initially fired were the minimum legal size for explosive projectiles, according to the St Petersburg Declaration of 1868. These guns were very popular as shipboard weapons against the small torpedo boats used then. They were also used on land. 40mm, 47mm and 53mm versions of the rotary gun were also made. They were obsolete by WW1, although some survived in minor roles.

The 37x94R cartridge was next adopted for the Maxim "pom-pom", a belt-fed machine gun, around the end of the 19th century. They were famously used against the British Army in the Boer War. These guns were widely adopted and saw a lot of service in WW1, but were obsolete by WW2.

WW1 saw the use of lightweight, single-barrel "trench guns" in this calibre, orignally French but also adopted by the USA. The gun was also used in the cannon versions of the Renault FT tank, which is what your grandfather was presumably referring to (see pic below). A few older French tanks still used this ammo at the start of WW2 in new loadings, one of which was a high-velocity AP round with a hard steel core in a magnesium sheath.

Apart from that, the ammo was used in various sub-calibre training devices (and probably survived longest in that role). All told, it was made in several countries by many firms in a host of different loadings. I know of some people who just specialise in collecting variations of the 37x94R with different headstamps and loadings, and they've hundreds of them, all different. Probably the most common and certainly the most varied cannon round of all.

 

[Austanker]

ty

Thanks for the replies , looks like Grandpa was telling the truth , it would have been one of the first tanks he'd seen , so a souveneir was definatley in order

 

[Tony Williams]

I forgot to add - lightweight single-barrel manually-loaded guns in 37x94R calibre were also fitted to many French aircraft, along with more powerful weapons. Other countries (eg Russia) also made guns in this calibre.

 

[canadagal62]

shell casing

Hi..I have the same shell casing, found in Ypres, Belgium.
It has all the same markings on the base, except where yours has
a #10, mine is 6. I was told it is a German shell casing.

I have a 37 mm shell casing that my grandfather gave me when I was 7 years old , he told me it came from a French Renault tank and he grabbed it after " some chappie " threw a handfull out of the tank hatch alongside him in the trenches somewhere in France WW1





My first web search led me to here: http://www.the-amc.com/vmchk/Odds-and-Ends/DE-ACTIVATED-37-mm-MAXIM-SHELL-DATED-K-19-AUG-1918

It look identical to the casing pictured here , but they say it's from a Naval type pom-pom gun Maxim type , evidently these guns were also used as anti aircraft guns on the Western Front , not entirely convinced I delved deeper

Second search ended up here: http://www.xs4all.nl/~ator1149/wfm/ww1/stamps2.html#canon

Here I found the casing looks very similar to the pictued 37mm Hotchkiss casings , with the same screw in detonator plug , also I found out a bit about the markings on the base which are as follows:

K 10 JUNE 1918 ( maybe 13 ) Sp 255 119A and on the firing pin 6 or G Kp

Evidently K means KARLSRUHE and Sp255 means it was inspected in Spandau

The French Renault FT-17 tanks were armed with a naval type 37 mm Puteaux cannon and also a 37mm Hotchkiss gun my research has found sometimes they are called Maxim guns . The FT-17's came into action in 1918 I believe

The Germans also had 37mm Hotchkiss guns I found

So

What do I have here ?

Is it feasible that this shell was made in Germany , captured and used on the Western Front in a French ( or American ) FT-17 tank ?

Is this type of 37mm shell used on a variety of same calibre weapons from AA guns , anti tank guns and as the main gun on a French tank ?

Any info would be greatly appreciated , thanks

 

[Gspragge]

My 2 Cents

Well identified as it is a German 37x94 casing. It has deep crimp marks so it was not loaded with with the German HE projectile, this pretty much eliminates the several 37mm German oddly designed close support guns in service at the wars end. What it was most likely loaded with was the German Tracer which was mostly used in the German 37mm Maxim gun for AA fire. It was also fired in The German made Revolving Cannons used for the same purpose. The Germans captured some French 37mm ammunition and I have seen several projectiles marked as practice, but I have never heard of it in actual active service. They captured more Russian ammunition and that was used I gather. I have not ever heard of the French using German 37mm ammunition, they made so much of there own we are still buried in it ! That the Germans used this 37mm ammunition primarily for AA purposes would put it farther back and out of reach until the end of the war when things got moving. I think in the Guns section I have a thread on the AA 37mm guns in use and in my Album here I show the basic forms of these so you can see how they were loaded. There would be a degree of interchangability to all of this ammunition but the German round for the Maxim would follow the loading for the British Maxim being all the same gun really at 1800 FPS, while the French loading followed the older Revolving Cannon loading at 1300 FPS. So switching ammunition might give interesting results, not always desirable.