ID request: 12Pr projectile: British or export for Japan?

[ogreve]

Hi All,

You may remember that I was working on getting several tall projectiles out of Japan. Well, in early September I received another batch of them, and they happened to be the 'restoration lot'. I started with the restoration work, by first removing as much rust as possible using a steel brush, and today I got to do this on a 12Pr projectile.
Even with the rust in place, it was clear it was marked (a.o.) "12Pr IV" and with a date of "16/8/1901" on the nose, as well as some other markings.
As the Japanese used the 12Pr calibre, and as they made heavy use of British manufactured ammo around that time, I was counting on this projectile to have been British manufactured, for export to Japan. However, when removing the rust, more markings appeared. One set of markings by all means seems to be the British broad arrow, with a date "10/1901" underneath it. Somewhere else on the projectile I also encountered a further seemingly broad arrow (it misses the rightmost leg though!), as well as some individual letters like a 'T' a 'C P' and an 'R'. The base has the number '468' (possibly 466) stamped into it.
The longer block of text on the side reads:

Q F
12 PR IV
C S
K

The projectile is 300mm tall and has a surprisingly big inner cavity (the measuring tape went in some 280mm), it seems to be a pointed base fuzed HE projectile. It is quite heavy, at 3380 grams. Sadly, the driving band is missing. It must have had a height of 27mm, and it started at 11mm from the base. The 'recessed inner circle' at the base is 54mm in diameter and is 7mm recessed. The screw thread has a diameter of 38mm and a height of 25mm.

Can anyone tell me some more about this projectile?
Do the (apparent) broad arrows indeed make it fully British accepted, and hence not an export product, or could it be this one was exported to Japan after all? Note: the projectile was found in Japan (I'm guessing at a scrap dealer's place).

I like the extensive markings on the projectile. Is it anything special, or is it a common one?

Any input will be well appreciated.

Cheers,
Olafo

 

[ogreve]

Hi guys,

Doesn't anyone have an idea?
I don't have documentation on British ammo, but I was hoping the detailed information would make this one easy to identify, or are the markings very uncommon, perhaps?

Cheers,
Olafo

 

[Dronic69]

Hi Olafo,

It looks "extremely" similar to a 12pdr HE projectile I had many years ago - if you look in my gallery at the "Ordnance Small 1- ex-collection" - the one on the far RHS is the one I used to have (repainted). But as this was sold / swapped / traded about 20 years ago so its a little hard to provide details, except it was from a naval 12pdr OF deck gun. From memory my projectile was also dated around the 1900's.

You pose an interesting question if items displaying the broad arrow was for home usage rather than export ---- I have a 1904 Carl Zeiss scissor scope (rabbit's ear's periscope or "scherenfernrohr") which was sold (exported) to the British and has both the Carl Zeiss logo and the British broad arrow, so perhaps supporting the theory that Britain stamp any items for home usage with the broad arrow????
{I have a photo of it somewhere..............btw - it is an extremely rare scissor-scope as it was fitted with an "ocular revolver" - the eye-piece could be rotated between x10 & x 20 magnification)

Cheers
Drew

 

[Gspragge]

I think if it was sold to Japan if released from British service you would see point to point arrows. It could very easily be captured material as these guns would have been every where, both Land (coastal defense) & Sea use I think. If the Japanese had these guns in service ? from around 1900 then it would be useful captured material.