Info/thoughts!! needed

[hicky1300]

Again found these on the `sort out`:xd:
1st pic
The 303 with the wood `bullet` has headstamp GA AI 53
The blank round is the same as a NATO 7.62/308 but the headstamp is 30-06 SPRG (springfield) winchester. There is no way though this is a 30-06 as the case is too short??!!
Next pics 2 interesting .50 cal cases. Both stencilled `PROOF` the good one has a bad extractor mark to the rim & some dents & headstamp K (kynoch) .50 the primer is barely touched - just a very shallow indent (not enough to fire). The second though is completely trashed - but still the correct length??!! Looks to have burst given the split but the expansion & deformation of the head & rim doesn`t hold up to what Ive seen before.

Any ideas?:tinysmile_kiss_t3:

 

[pointblank0]

Interesting and odd about the 30-06. No ideas I'm afraid.

 

[Falcon]

The .30-06 is probably a 7.62 blank made from a .30-06 case for film use. The case could be resized as it had the extra length or brass to form the crimped neck from.

The .303 could be either a wood bulleted blank or dummy. The case was made by Artillerie - Inrichtingen NV, Zaandam, Netherlands in 1953.

The .50 explosion could have been caused by the round firing before the bolt was fully closed.

 

[Chris 42 RQ]

Firing pin indent !

Hicky to quote

"the good one has a bad extractor mark to the rim & some dents & headstamp K (kynoch) .50 the primer is barely touched - just a very shallow indent (not enough to fire). "

I have attached a picture of a 23 mm VYA case that has been fired correctly where the primer has been blown back onto the breechface resulting in a slightly proud "pip" standing out from the primer, it may be that your 50 cal "PROOF" case has also acted in the same way resulting in it appearing to have received a "light strike" from the firing pin ?

The forces involved in proof rounds can produce strange results on the Brass cases used.

I once had a 50 cal Proof that was fired in a .55 Boys A/T rifle and it took the exact chamber size and shape without any damage at all to the case other than it was made into a .55 Boys empty case with a K 46 .50 Headstamp !

 

[pointblank0]

The .30-06 is probably a 7.62 blank made from a .30-06 case for film use. The case could be resized as it had the extra length or brass to form the crimped neck from.

The .303 could be either a wood bulleted blank or dummy. The case was made by Artillerie - Inrichtingen NV, Zaandam, Netherlands in 1953.

The .50 explosion could have been caused by the round firing before the bolt was fully closed.

Mate! What's all this with the sensible answers?:tinysmile_shy_t:

 

[tigbrand]

Resizing.

How to resize your cases the easy way Chris! Must actually be quite safe as the brass, expands and reduces the chamber pressure?? Anyway,Best wishes to you old chap.Tig:tinysmile_fatgrin_t

 

[Falcon]

I have attached a picture of a 23 mm VYA case that has been fired correctly where the primer has been blown back onto the breechface resulting in a slightly proud "pip" standing out from the primer, it may be that your 50 cal "PROOF" case has also acted in the same way resulting in it appearing to have received a "light strike" from the firing pin ?

Chris, that is actually a post war case for a sub-calibre tank gun. There were only steel cases made for post war use in aircraft cannons. The case is also marked "BC" which indicates sub-calibre use in the cyrillic alphabet. It was made at NKB Kemerovo, Kemerovo, Russia in 1980.

 

[TonyE]

Cases

Ditto to the previous answers.

The Dutch .303" is a bulleted blank for use in Bren guns. The Dutch Marines only gave up their Bren guns a few years ago.

The .50 cases are interesting, as the split case looks like it has been fired either as Falcon suggested, before the gun was in battery, or in a completely wrongly headspaced weapon.

I agree with Chris about the light strike.

Regards
TonyE

 

[V40]

I believe that the "Proof" on the cartridges were used in all weapons during all they way to present day. They used the rounds in the factory to test the barrel and chamber. I can't remember if they tested all barrels in the lot our just a few in each lot number.

They were loaded with a more powerful powder and with special primers that are definately specially made stronger compared to the ordinary cartridges. The .50cal seems to have had a catastrophic failure in the chamber. Well, since we know nothing about what that .50cal test barrel would of looked like after the incident we can only guess what may have happened. With the apperance of the base of that cartridge looking the way it does I'd say there was also an explosion that occured in the chamber itself. Even ammunition providers for wartimes use especialy a certain amount of items that are suppose to make it to the Quality Control area of the factory. This round may have passed the first QC over it but, as we are only human and mistakes do happen, it could have been double charged meaning that it recieved more (way more) on the amount of powder that is suppose to be in a "Proof" round. Since the base makes it look like a rimmed round now it is almost always the cartridge to fail first. The primer on your seems to have blown clear of the cartrigde (which they will do when overpressure occurs) to release the higher pressures occuring inside the cartrdge itself. The split down around the base also indicates overpressuring too. The crushing of the semi-rimmed round into what is now a rimmed round now, may also be because of the chamer base or back face of the bolt being stationary when it was fired, will give you that crushing look in the base because of overpressure.

What you'd probaly see on the bolt face of that chamber to have an almost exact out lying are of the bolt itself. Also, you'd find the primer broken and some metal with molten steel around the hole for the firing pin.

This is just my opinion only, with about forty+ years of shooting different rifles and handguns.

I have only had a cartidge fail on me twice. Once it was in a revolver and the other was M-1 Garand, both were someones elses re-loads. Scared the crap out of me too. both weapons took it all very well, but the cartridges themselves were really torn up.

Again just my own opinion. No one others either. then again I could be wrong on some of it too.

 

[gijunkman]

Having some expeince with Browning guns I'd say your headspace was incorrect on your .50 cal cartridges. As for your '06 cases it is not uncommon for cases to be resized to other calibers especially .30'06 to .308 or .270, ect.. It's an easy trim and run through reloading dies.

 

[V40]

I am sticking with the "Proof Round" causing it all theory

 

[gijunkman]

Proof round theory is ok, you proof complete weapons though, so in a Browning it is possible to have a headspace related case failure on a proof round because of it's adjustable headspace. Don't ask me diffrent ammo just runs diffrent in these things, I don't know why.:tinysmile_shy_t:

 

[hicky1300]

All good stuff gents & thanks.
Honestly cannot recall where I picked these up from but I was at the Stafford Proofing/QC ranges many years ago & that may be favourite.
Glad about the .303 as its an HS I do not have in my collection.
I can understand the 30-06 but seems a lot of trouble to go to for a blank?
I will keep it though for my oddities collection!
Anyone looking for 30-06 blanks & 7.92 blanks for their SAA collection? - found a few spares.

 

[Chris 42 RQ]

Thanks Falcon/Tony E

Chris, that is actually a post war case for a sub-calibre tank gun. There were only steel cases made for post war use in aircraft cannons. The case is also marked "BC" which indicates sub-calibre use in the cyrillic alphabet. It was made at NKB Kemerovo, Kemerovo, Russia in 1980.

Thanks for the info Falcon, I learn something new every day on here !
Thanks also Tony E for your respons.

 

[Falcon]

I can understand the 30-06 but seems a lot of trouble to go to for a blank?
I will keep it though for my oddities collection!

Film ordnance companies often make their own blanks to their own designs, and often out of different cases. The .30-06 was probably a blank designed to function in fully automatic weapons with restricted barrels for blank firing use.