Inter War 18pdr?

[Vasco Da Gama]

I thought I would post a couple of pictures of a 18pdr case recently acquired in France. What made me buy this example was the range of acceptance stamps and the apparent marking of a Mk2 Star case. On closer examination the primer is marked RL 1/29 and W 7/34, with a AY 29 crossed out. To me this would indicate a later primer has been fitted, simple answer a hole has been filled to make the case more saleable. However, I can see no markings indicating the primer has been removed and the acceptance marks are not standard. Maker is faint DC P Co Ltd, Canadian? As always glad to have your comments.

 

[SHAKY]

You are right. D.C.P.Co- Dominion Copper Products Company. Interesting markings and a nice case.

 

[Falcon]

I have also seen 18 Pounder cases with inter-war dates. They also usually have a * stamped after the II, which means the case has been modified somehow and they are now Mk II* specification. I would be interested to know what this modification is.

There must have been so many cases left at the end of WW1 that there was no need to manufacture any more in the inter-war years.

 

[Gspragge]

I saw one dated 1923 --- guy wouldn't sell it.

 

[pedro]

This Primer is a screw type and is easily removed with the correct Key. Due to long term storage and routine Proofing of components it is quite common to see primers (and fuzes) removed and replaced (usually when the Lot fails a test).

In the case of inter-war production it may be reasonable to suggest that a government may have seen it fit to recover, rework and reload cartridges and even perhaps primers. In the case of this primer (without a full examination of monograms) it shows to have been made originally at one location (RL) then either re-worked/re-loaded/modified/upgraded at another time and place. The case is some 12-17 year older than the Primer dates which suggests that the primer is not the original.

 

[Bonnex]

I have also seen 18 Pounder cases with inter-war dates. They also usually have a * stamped after the II, which means the case has been modified somehow and they are now Mk II* specification. I would be interested to know what this modification is.

There must have been so many cases left at the end of WW1 that there was no need to manufacture any more in the inter-war years.

Ordnance Board Proceedings mentions that 18 Pr cases were shortened for use as QF Separate cases (and therefore allowing the charge to be modified on the gun line). I think this was only experimental. I doubt a * would suffice to accommodate the significant change in filling design (presuming that charge bags replaced the normal propellant arrangement) but if Mark II* cases are shorter then it might be related to the QF Separate trials.

 

[Falcon]

Sorry all I meant to say that I had seen 1918 dated 18 Pounder cases with inter-war dated PRIMERS fitted. I have never seen an actual case with an inter-war date as there was presumably plenty left.

Bonnex: Interesting about the shortened cases. The Mk II* ones I have seen have all been the standard length.

 

[AMMOTECHXT]

The No 1 percussion primer was still in use in the 1980s. Those I saw were used in proof of 5.5 Inch gun propellant in a purpose made proof rig. The propellant dated from 1943 and still functioned satisfactorily. I don't remember the dates on the primers.

 

[Dronic69]

I saw one dated 1923 --- guy wouldn't sell it.

I had one dated 1927 and sold it!

 

[Vasco Da Gama]

Many thanks for all the comments. I can confirm that the inert case pictured is the same length as a standard 18pdr. Having compared it with a 1916 dated Mk2 case I can see no obvious differences, I guess the reason for the Mk2 Star marking remains a mystery!

 

[Infanteer]

This case also has a Canadian C broad arrow acceptance stamp. I'm wondering if this stamp would be found on British made casings when accepted into use by the Canadian army or if it would only be found on Canadian made casings?

 

[Dandebur]

Hello everyone.
I have already met some cases of 18Pr MKII, stamped 18 PRII*. They are armed with a primer with inter-war date.
Last year, I found one, with a primer of WW1. This one has been erased then printed with dates of 1931 and 1934.(photos 1&2). It is perhaps a production of BSC, we can see a C, H in circle and 234 is perhaps the lot number.
By analogy with the primers, when a N1 MKII is converted to a N1 MKIII, a star is stamped on it. ( except for RAL who name it N1 IIC). THE 18Pr II* has perhaps become a 18Pr MKIII.(photo 3). I can see no difference between 18Pr MKII, 18Pr MKII* and 18Pr MKIII.
I have also a case of 4.5 Inch MKII converted to MKII* (photos 4&5). It is also a canadian production. I think this one was a new case, never loaded or primed during WW1. Since on cases of 4.5 Inch, the primer is blocked by two knocks with a nail. When the case is reprimed, there are four knocks (photo 6).
Therefore I think that the date stamped on british cases is not, as I have sometimes read on forums, the date of the first loading, but the date of acceptance to service.
I have a last question: I have never seen a 18Pr's case of canadian manufacture dated 1918.
Has anybody ever seen one?
Thanks for your answers.
Regards.
Dandebur.

 

[Dandebur]

Photos

Photos that I try to send.

 

[Dandebur]

The last photos

There are the last photos

 

[hicky1300]

To add to Falcons point this 18 pounder is currently on QFA
http://www.quickfireauctions.co.uk/...h-18-pounder-shrapnel-shell&auction_id=102439
The description states it is a 1916 case with a 1925 primer. I cannot enlarge the pic of headstamp/s so not sure if there is an * after the MK info?
Fairly sure I have a 1923 dated case somewhere??

 

[TimG]

Dandebur,

The figure for Canadian production of 18 pr cases for 1918 is 2,816,492.

TimG

 

[Dandebur]

Hello TimG
Thank you for your answer, but, sorry, I do not understand what means 2,816,492.
Regards
Dandebur