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Last days of the Mills in British service

B

Bannerman

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As an army-barmy schoolboy in 1970, I attended the annual Army Display at Aldershot Garrison. I took great interest in the grenades on display in the infantry weapons section. There was an L2, next to it an example of it's notched fragmentation coil and next to this a No36M Mk1. It was stated on the information board that the L2 was now in full service with all combat units, but that the No36 continued to be manufactured for issue to engineers/assault pioneer units as a supplement to their demolition kits, the grenade "being particularly useful for clearing thick vegetation".

I have looked at contemporaneous Field Engineering manuals which do indeed confirm the use of various munitions in demolition work, with diagrams of projectiles and det cord used to bring down trees to form obstacles for example. However, I could find no mention of the No36 being so employed. Do any members have any information, anecdotal or otherwise, regarding the use of the No36 in this way by engineers?

More questions; in Rick Landers' "Grenade", I picked up where it states ".....last production of empty grenades in November 1972". Am I right to interpret from this that the last batch were never filled and that examples of these are currently doing the rounds with white tape over the filler holes and sealed in poly-bags? It is said that these were stockpiled in the Emergency War Reserve. Did the entire batch end up here or did some go elsewhere, maybe for export?

Finally, I heard from a couple of sources that there was some further production of No36's in British ROF's in 1973 to fulfil an order from Pakistan. For a while I had in my collection what was supposed to be an example of one of these, base plug marked 1973 ROF (C). The C is for ROF Chorley. The base plug was seen by a much more experienced collector and immediately dismissed as a fake. I find it hard to believe the Pakistanis would be buying grenades from Britain seeing as they had their own production facilities which continued to make No36 grenades into the 1980's but if anyone has any information or views which might clarify this, I'd be very interested.

Bruno
 
I have "The Handbook of Land Service Ammunition" dated 1971 which at Section 20 para 306 states ".. the well tried Grenade, No 36M, Hand, is still in service".
 
More questions; in Rick Landers' "Grenade" said:
Bruno, the November 1972 date for the 'last manufacture' in Lander's book came from the people at Patricroft and they were pretty specific about the date. Of course it is almost certain that if any of these were filled that Chorley or Glascoed did them in 1973 or thereafter so the Pakistan story is quite feasible; it depends how you interpret 'production', production for Chorley was mostly about filling.
 
The Indian Mills was still listed in a military catalogue I saw last year. Are they still being made in India?

John
 
I also am wondering about that to John. A few years ago it looked like India and/or Pakastan were still using them.

In Jane's it appears that they are saying that it's long been "Obsolete" and that you will still find it being used by many Commonwealth nations ad ex-Commonwealth nations. It was discountinued for the L2A1. This happened sometime in that year (1975) for replacing the 36M with the "Grenade, Hand-Rifle, Anti-Personnel, L2A1.

Wow, I think I just answered are questions, John. Can anybody else give out more information? Learning more everyday!

Mark
 
Thats the one

Its amazing what they are still making down there.
2" mortars rounds, SOE wartime switches etc... and they say they don't make things like they used to!

All the best from a very Sunny Norway!

T42
 
Hi guys,

A belated thanks to all of you for your contributions. It would certainly appear that OFB of India are still producing the No.36. I'm tempted to contact them to check out the score and I'm hoping to get time to sort out an appropriate email later this week.

If indeed they are still making/selling the No.36, then this grenade is fast approaching it's 2015 centenery. Wow! Impressive or what?

Cheers
Bannerman
 
Hi there all you contributors to this thread. Oh yeah and readers of it too.

Loads of good stuff! From the contributions here and on related threads, together we appear to have established that the Grenade Hand, No36(M) Mk1 is still in production in India. Will it continue to be produced beyond its' centenery in 2015? If so, that would be something! Is it the oldest and longest surviving grenade in service?

Already the Mills grenade has to be up there with the weapon design classics of all time. I saw another thread here today, which explained that the US 40mm Grenade Launcher is now 50 years old (many happy returns!). I recently learned that the US B52 bomber, started in service in 1954, should, due to it's incredibly upgradeable airframe and in-house weaponary, be still doing it's job in 2054!

Let's not forget this stuff is there for very serious reasons, with usually tragic outcomes for those on the receiving end. Nevertheless, it must be acknowledged that the designers/scientists responsible for these weapons did brilliantly and the results speak for themselves.

OK, I've said my bit about the Mills bomb. So,,,,, if we can ignore stuff like the Spitfire, Tiger Tank, U-boat, SMLE rifle, T34 tank, MP44 assualt rifle, Mustang fighter, ME 109, Stokes mortar, Harrier jet, M16A2, Lancaster bomber, AK47 and so very much more........

I'd like to ask, what say you? What are your thoughts about design classic/war winning/battle influencing/shaping ORDNANCE, both the projectiles and the kit that fired them?

Cheers,

Bannerman
 
Hi there all you contributors to this thread. Oh yeah and readers of it too.


I'd like to ask, what say you? What are your thoughts about design classic/war winning/battle influencing/shaping ORDNANCE, both the projectiles and the kit that fired them?

Cheers,

Bannerman

The Bangalore Torpedo, Hayrick, and Beehive demolition charges. WWII vintage - still being marketed for use in 2010.
 
From the contributions here and on related threads, together we appear to have established that the Grenade Hand, No36(M) Mk1 is still in production in India. Will it continue to be produced beyond its' centenery in 2015? If so, that would be something! Is it the oldest and longest surviving grenade in service?

Already the Mills grenade has to be up there with the weapon design classics of all time.


Bannerman

The actual anniversary would be 1917 as it is the Mills 36 being produced not the No 5. Small point.

Going back to the opening post I think the reference to clearing thick vegetation was more likely to be 'clearing troops out of thick vegetation'. The Mills breaking into a wide range of fragment sizes and having a lethal range of up to 200 yards.

John
 
The Big Three

I think the 3 hand grenades that withstood the test of time were the Mills biomb, the US MKII, and last but most certainly least the French F1. I guess the F1 would be the time in service record holder because as I understand it, it is still in service in eastern bloc countries. But these three grenades deserve special mention as definately not being of the flash in the pan variety,...Dano
 
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