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Mk1 A/P Training Shrapnel Mine info please

yes most all manuals say the handle must be removed before placing and yet in photo 05 of AE501 post(not sure what manual this is from)
in the section "laying",paragraph 2,it says the handle must be left in place
maybe they changed their mind and decided it wasnt a good idea to leave the handle on(probably stuck up too high and would be hard bury/disguise it)
the SAS must of had some massive loads to carry,4 of these mines in a box weighed nearly 45lbs
 
yes most all manuals say the handle must be removed before placing and yet in photo 05 of AE501 post(not sure what manual this is from)
in the section "laying",paragraph 2,it says the handle must be left in place
maybe they changed their mind and decided it wasnt a good idea to leave the handle on(probably stuck up too high and would be hard bury/disguise it)
the SAS must of had some massive loads to carry,4 of these mines in a box weighed nearly 45lbs
I think the wire handle is flexible wire cable not stout solid wire
 
The mines were dropped and carried around in a jeep.
SAS troops operated from forest camps way south and southeast of Paris starting June 6, 44. They often boobytrapped trails that led to them. Since they always had high explosives and SOE or MD1 switches, no doubt some bombs were improvised, but the Shrapnel Mine would have been perfect for that.

I have a lot of books about the wartime SAS and don't remember reading about them using this mine. If anyone knows it has been published I'd like to know where.
 
SAS troops operated from forest camps way south and southeast of Paris starting June 6, 44. They often boobytrapped trails that led to them. Since they always had high explosives and SOE or MD1 switches, no doubt some bombs were improvised, but the Shrapnel Mine would have been perfect for that.

I have a lot of books about the wartime SAS and don't remember reading about them using this mine. If anyone knows it has been published I'd like to know where.
Its recorded in a recent SAS book which came out a year or so ago, i will have a look.
 
yes it would be better if the handle was flexible then it would fit in the box better and also when laying the mine
 
Who knows the maker of these mines
I saw the attached photo posted somewhere. Maybe on BOCN? It's the only photo I have seen of the mortar part that has what appears to be a name. "T & SR" and there is a symbol preceding it I can't make out. Anyone know if this is the maker, who it is, and what that symbol is?

It is a casting mark and it might be a foundry the maker/assembler of the mine bought from.

This apparently answers one of the questions I was going to ask - were this and the inner mine castings? If so were they iron, steel, or something else? I don't know what material was best for fragmenting using one pound of HE. I mean pieces big enough to go some distance and not vaporize into lots of less lethal ones. People say these were filled with 80/20 Amatol which must have burned at a speed just right. Not too fast.
 

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I saw the attached photo posted somewhere. Maybe on BOCN? It's the only photo I have seen of the mortar part that has what appears to be a name. "T & SR" and there is a symbol preceding it I can't make out. Anyone know if this is the maker, who it is, and what that symbol is?

It is a casting mark and it might be a foundry the maker/assembler of the mine bought from.

This apparently answers one of the questions I was going to ask - were this and the inner mine castings? If so were they iron, steel, or something else? I don't know what material was best for fragmenting using one pound of HE. I mean pieces big enough to go some distance and not vaporize into lots of less lethal ones. People say these were filled with 80/20 Amatol which must have burned at a speed just right. Not too fast.
I think the inner castings were the same material as the outer like cast iron as i have seem some examples that have a crack in the base. If they were mild steel you wouldn't get such a crack, as for manufacture it would save time casting than machining in a war savings cost set up.
 
I think the inner castings were the same material as the outer like cast iron as i have seem some examples that have a crack in the base. If they were mild steel you wouldn't get such a crack, as for manufacture it would save time casting than machining in a war savings cost set up.
I showed this book to Bonnex many years ago as he had never seen the American version of Winston Churchills Toyshop dust jacket, he was not aware MD1invented the mine.

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"Toyshop" is a great book. Macrae was 2IC under armaments genius Millis Jefferis and he designed some of their gadgets. Thankfully he kept most of his notes and drawings, although he would have been in big trouble if anyone learned that. He waited a LONG time to write that book. Excellent writer with a good sense of humor.
 
I bought a replica Mk II mine from Relics.org and decided it could be improved with paint, markings, a better looking lever out of steel, some grinding on the cartridge pistol, and replaced striker ends with steel ones. The outer shell, detonator pistol, and lever are resin and the "explosive" part and cartridge pistol is wood. I asked them to make the mine removable and short, so a large space under it could be filled with lead to make the thing feel more realistic. Price is reasonable at 70.80 GBP, especially since I was interested to put some sweat equity into it. I just noticed they improved part of the detonator pistol. I am not happy with the way they made mine, not sure if I want to fix it. If I do I'll probably cut it off and get my friend with a 3D printer plus a lathe to make an accurate one with ribs. Right now he is busy making a Type 6 Limpet, AC Delay bursters, and an AC Delay or two for the display I am putting together for a military vehicle show in April.

My Relics one came in looking much like this photo on their website:
Relics mine as of 0224.png
Overly simple cartridge pistol top, no threads at the bottom, which we can see in photos of genuine ones. The lever on mine was flexible resin, same width throughout, and short. Not like the genuine one. Yellowish color, faded-looking. Stripes not the right color.

What I came up with. No handle yet. Top of the detonator pistol (on left) is odd. The current one they advertise above is much better. Not sure if the 80/20 marking for the Amatol filling should be there. I like it - a conversation starter. Some on BOCN say yes and I believe some think only a green stripe is right.
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I ground and bent a piece of flat steel to make a better handle, and used a small grinder to carve out the trip plate to look much like the original one. Removing the striker top made this easier, and it is replaced with a steel one. I put some markings on one side of the detonator pistol by heating some 1/8 inch stamps and pressing them into the resin. It will get a broad arrow on the other side. Painted markings are educated guesses and the stripes are crude, like what might have been done by a little Welsh girl after a night drinking with American fliers.

There are some nicks on it but didn't want to make it look 80 years old, or like a new one just out of the crate. Yellow is "School Bus Yellow," the bounding part is "Espresso," and the pistols are a metallic paint that looked the best of what was available. I think these parts were zinc. The lever is painted with Aluma-Hyde brand Parkerizing Gray that many people here use on machine guns.

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I stamped some unfortunately not-neat markings on the lever. I doubt if I find anyone in California who has ever seen one of these, so it won't be like our vehicle events where we have the "Jeep Police" and "rivet counters" to worry about. I have the mine set proud of the mortar - don't know if that is right but I like it.

The lever has some markings, again, not very good looking. The hole was already on the flat bar I had available. The weights are .38-55 caliber lead bullets I cast many years ago when I was reloading for a vintage Winchester Model 1885 single shot, "low wall" rifle, designed by John Browning for long range target shooting which was very popular in the U.S. in the late 1800s. About as popular as golf is today, believe it or not. As you can see the mine will come out, in case I need some bullets.

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It weighs 6 1/2 pounds which feels good. I believe the genuine ones were 10. Very chunky and over-engineered I think.

A step up, as mentioned, would be 3D printing a new detonator pistol. The cartridge pistol top relics makes can be ground to look good, so anyone wanting to improve one of these should do what I did. I might cut off and save just the top, and have my friend with a lathe put some threads on a new wood or plastic dowel and attach this top to it. The pistol should look like it's mostly but not completely threaded into the mine.

I should be working on my replica SAS jeep and building the table top display cases for the SOE/MD1 sabotage and infantry equipment display planned for April. But this was a fun one for a retired guy. If anyone has any suggestions, please sound off.

John in California
 
thats a really nice replica that most people wont even know its a replica
paint and markings look just right
there are details of the wire handle in this post as well
 
Nice replica. I know someone who copied parts and made one out of steel just welded some thick water pipe up, made the lifting ears separate and welded them to the outer pot and made a inner pot found the original thread sizes for the pistol and other so they could put original parts in place which were plentiful a while back. As for markings look at my mine done on a production line with no time to be a Leandro de Vinci artist in war time with alcohol still in the blood stream from the night before. You could get original pistol bits cast in resin plastic if you can find an original good for casting. Trouble with the pistol and other bits they are made of Mazak which like mills bomb base plugs can be hit or miss when it comes to corrosion, shame they weren't brass.
 
Just to add, when you compare this mine to its German and Italian equivalent, the British mine is built like a brick s house strong and durable and clunky like our engineering, the German design efficient and simple light in design giving maximum effect and deadly in performance. The Italian B4 not really a bounding mine but a mine that explodes above ground. Over engineered with so many bits to make like door for string reels etc but not a good performer due to minimal explosive and shrapnel, hardly worth the manufacturing effort put in for the effect when set off and could be made more simple with a larger charge and shrapnel content. The winner the German Smine although it did have its problems until the Smine 44 turned up.
 
Thanks for the comments about my replica. If anyone has resin pistol parts or drawings for 3D printer, please let me know, for a possible Version 1.1.
 
Thanks for the comments about my replica. If anyone has resin pistol parts or drawings for 3D printer, please let me know, for a possible Version 1.1.
Since that post I lowered the striker on the det pistol so the lever fits into it better. This is for any rivet counters who may be watching.
 
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