Hi All (possibly Diaofushui in particular),
As many of you probably know, I fully specialise in Japanese and Chinese ordnance, up to the end of WW2.
Earlier today, my Belgian friend and middleman received the round for me that is shown in the attached pictures. It is a Chinese early 1" Nordenfelt round, and as old Chinese ammunition is one of the very few realms that's even tougher to acquire and study (due to little available documentation and specimens), I'm hoping someone can answer a few questions for me. Please pardon my ignorance regarding the various aspects of Chinese ammunition, date periods and information about their armed forces. It is an area that I have yet to start researching properly.
The headstamp style is what I perceive as "typically old Chinese", yet, this very style of headstamp so far has ONLY been seen by me twice, with the other occurrence being on a 37x94R case. My round came from Japan, and AFAIK the 37x94R casing (which is not owned by me) too.
The questions:
1) A translation request: AFAIK the three Kanji between the * and the anchor, read 'arsenal', but do they also mention a city or arsenal name?
2) The other two Kanji are numerals, being '2' and '4'; most likely read as '24', but possibly as '42'. I'm quite sure that this is an indication for the year of manufacture, but even though I know the Japanese date systems very well, I'm not yet trained in the Chinese ones. Can someone tell me what year this is? One possibility is 1935, but I'm not sure...
3) The anchor is a mystery to me: it shows the very style that one so often encounters on early IJN used ammo. It's not a Japanese arsenal anchor, but my theory is that this style anchor is likely to be used for Japanese contract ammo. Does anyone know if China also used this exact same anchor, and if China even had much of a Navy and used this calibre around the period of +/- 1900 - 1940)? Do note that the anchor is the ONLY marking that has been 'double stamped'! It is well possible that all markings were applied in/by China, and only the anchor in/by Japan.
Chances are that at some point in time the Chinese fulfilled some Japanese contracts for 1" Nordenfelt and 37x94R ammo, and used this style headstamp. If so, it would not seem likely to me that the date on it could really be 1935, as at that time it is very hard to believe the Chinese would voluntarily be manufacturing ammo for Japan. Can anyone tell me anything about this particular anchor style in relation to Chinese ammo?
I *really* wonder if the anchor is Chinese (too) or Japanese only. If the latter is the case, apart from contract ammo it could possibly also be captured ammo. I hope someone knows anything about this.
4) Does anyone else have items with this particular style headstamp?
Finally, the brass sleeve of the projectile is still located in the casing (which has been fired, BTW). When I receive the round (which should happen on September 20th) I shall try to pry it out and check if it has markings on it.
Thanks in advance and cheers,
Olafo
As many of you probably know, I fully specialise in Japanese and Chinese ordnance, up to the end of WW2.
Earlier today, my Belgian friend and middleman received the round for me that is shown in the attached pictures. It is a Chinese early 1" Nordenfelt round, and as old Chinese ammunition is one of the very few realms that's even tougher to acquire and study (due to little available documentation and specimens), I'm hoping someone can answer a few questions for me. Please pardon my ignorance regarding the various aspects of Chinese ammunition, date periods and information about their armed forces. It is an area that I have yet to start researching properly.
The headstamp style is what I perceive as "typically old Chinese", yet, this very style of headstamp so far has ONLY been seen by me twice, with the other occurrence being on a 37x94R case. My round came from Japan, and AFAIK the 37x94R casing (which is not owned by me) too.
The questions:
1) A translation request: AFAIK the three Kanji between the * and the anchor, read 'arsenal', but do they also mention a city or arsenal name?
2) The other two Kanji are numerals, being '2' and '4'; most likely read as '24', but possibly as '42'. I'm quite sure that this is an indication for the year of manufacture, but even though I know the Japanese date systems very well, I'm not yet trained in the Chinese ones. Can someone tell me what year this is? One possibility is 1935, but I'm not sure...
3) The anchor is a mystery to me: it shows the very style that one so often encounters on early IJN used ammo. It's not a Japanese arsenal anchor, but my theory is that this style anchor is likely to be used for Japanese contract ammo. Does anyone know if China also used this exact same anchor, and if China even had much of a Navy and used this calibre around the period of +/- 1900 - 1940)? Do note that the anchor is the ONLY marking that has been 'double stamped'! It is well possible that all markings were applied in/by China, and only the anchor in/by Japan.
Chances are that at some point in time the Chinese fulfilled some Japanese contracts for 1" Nordenfelt and 37x94R ammo, and used this style headstamp. If so, it would not seem likely to me that the date on it could really be 1935, as at that time it is very hard to believe the Chinese would voluntarily be manufacturing ammo for Japan. Can anyone tell me anything about this particular anchor style in relation to Chinese ammo?
I *really* wonder if the anchor is Chinese (too) or Japanese only. If the latter is the case, apart from contract ammo it could possibly also be captured ammo. I hope someone knows anything about this.
4) Does anyone else have items with this particular style headstamp?
Finally, the brass sleeve of the projectile is still located in the casing (which has been fired, BTW). When I receive the round (which should happen on September 20th) I shall try to pry it out and check if it has markings on it.
Thanks in advance and cheers,
Olafo
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