Need help with some shell casings I found in Crete (WWII)

[cheersmichael]

Hi New to the forum but looks like there are some very knowledgeable members out there. I am an archaeologist and have been working on a WWII landing craft that had 2lb Pom Poms. I assume the larger casings come from those. Any idea what is written on the bottom of these please? The smaller casings come from the same sight and just wondering what they come from and what would be written on the bottom. Can make out the year 1940 on 1 large shell and one small shell. Hope you can help and thanks in advance. Best Regards Michael

 

[TonyE]

Headstamps

I will leave it to someone else to give you details of the headstamps on the 2 Pdr shells,as that is not my area of knowledge.

However, the rifle rounds are of course .303 British, as is the bullet you illustrate. A typical headstamp for a .303 ball round would be "K 1940 VII", where "K" is the manufacturer Kynoch and "VII" represents a mark VII ball round. If it was a Mark II tracer it would include "G II" in the headstamp.

The cases look like they have been in a fire, as the primer has been blown out and at least one of the cases has ruptured.

The possibilities are extensive, as the rounds may have been made by any one of several manufacturers and coiuld be ball, tracer, AP or incendiary. In each case the headstamp would be different.

Regards
TonyE

 

[Hoeksel]

Here some typical 2 pounder head stamps from my collection, showing the large case is indeed a 2 Pr.:

2PRII*,VIII&SUB-CAL.I,IIL.A. (II) [L.H] N-1937 LOT 158 VAEL A33 BR7-41 12 1941

2Pr No1 MkII 39 RLB N 1941 LOT802 R.12-41 No27 IN TL 1941

2Pr No1 MkII arrow VAEL N 1941 NE LOT685 A78 BR3-41 673 No16-IN-F-1940 AF

2Pr No1 MkII RM/C N 1942 G LOT52 CRB 1/44 No27 IN GB 5/42 843

2Pr No1 MkII RM/C N 1942 G LOT53 CRB 1/44 No27 IN GB 5/42 843

 

[cheersmichael]

Thanks to Tony and Hoeksel. Interesting about the idea of these .303 having been in a fire and not actually fired. Do you believe it is the same with the 2pr shells as if it is the case for all of the ammunition on and around the site I may need to change my interpretation of the wrecking event. Hope you can make an observation for me. Thanks again to you both for your informative replies. Michael

 

[2pounder]

damage

The 2pr case has certainly undergone some catastrophic event as the primer pocket has been distorted and looks like its been pushed from inside the case. If a case cooks off the charge will burst it and it will show ballooning. The shell when it cooks off will often peel open as it is a low order detonation not the usual explosion caused by the detonator and gaine initiating it and causing fragmentation. 2pr

 

[TonyE]

Fire

Certainly in the picture of the four relic .303" cases, the third one down looks like it has been "cooked off" in a fire. The top round in that picture could also have been, but it could also have the remains of a belt link round the case. Can you check it with a magnet please.

The most compelling evidence though is the case with the blown out primer shown (unless the case is a drill round). That is usually indicative of a round being in a fire.

Regards
TonyE