New 3-inch Shrapnel....and 75mm Case

[pzjgr]

Got a question regarding this 3-inch shrapnel I picked up a few weeks ago...

I picked this and the case up from a buddy, thought they went together, but discovered the projectile isn't a 75mm, its a 3-inch shrapnel...so I will need to find a projectile for the case, and a case for the projectile.

What would be the proper cartridge case for this projectile? The overall length with the M1907 fuze is right about 11". It is a decent enough projectile, fired unfortunately...and needed to be stripped and re-painted.

I assume the case is just a standard French 75mm Field Gun? You have to have it in hand to really see it, but it trench art'ed...someone stippled in a really nice scene of a German floatplane being attacked by an opposing floatplane, but it is subdued, and you can display one side that is plain or the the art side. Also has a guys name stamped on the head...kind of neat. The mouth was a bit out of round, and belled, but I hammered it back in shape on a mandrel...

 

[raymeketa]

You need to determine what the projectile is in order to find the correct case for it. It should be marked (lightly stamped) just above the rotating band. The stamping may be filled with paint so you'll have to strip that ugly red paint off of it. UNLESS, the red is correct. I know that the USN Shrapnel was painted white but I'm not sure about the USA. Also, the USA projectile was a little longer than the USN.

Ray

 

[pzjgr]

Army shrapnels were initially painted black, then they switched to red late in WWI I believe...and used red for the rest of the shrapnels service life....

ETA I looked pretty hard for some sort of nomenclature stamped on it...and didn't see any. I will double check Monday when I get to the office...

As I said, the overall length with fuze is right about 11"

 

[raymeketa]

I think the USN Shrapnel projectile was 10 3/8" long.

Did the USA really use that red paint? Red is usually associated with dummy or target practice projectiles.

Ray

 

[DEADLINE222]

Although I cannot speak intelligently in regards to 3inch shrapnel projectiles; they did use red paint on 75mm, and everything else filled with "low explosives".

If I remember correctly, red paint was also used on early practice MK2 fragmentation grenades to correspond with the French color scheme.

 

[HAZORD]

All of the WWI into WWII U.S. Army fuzed shrapnel shells were painted red with black lettering or red and black, even the bag loaded 3.2 inch projectiles, all sizes from 75mm to 155mm. The Navy used a different color code for the 3 inch 23 cal. as shown on raymeketa's round above.

Straight cannister projectiles (container full of balls) were black with white lettering or in the case of the 1.65 inch gun, were tinned and not painted.

 

[bacarnal]

pzjgr, From what I've seen at my current work site, yes, that is probably a 3" Shrapnel. All depends on the length. Not a 75mm. The US 75mm Shrap had a longer base after the rotating band and no crimping groves. The red color is, as has been stated, correct. For the lengths, the US Handbook of Ordnance Data No 1861, Nov 15 1918 has all of the lengths associated with each particular round. If you have the free book from google, it won't have that data since they cropped it to make the page fit. If you could post the overall length of the round, from base to fuze, I could look it up. The casing for it will be hard to find. Cheers, Bruce.

 

[pzjgr]

Hey Bruce....the overall length of the projectile from base to tip of the fuze is 11"....I know there were several different 3" guns with different cases so thats why I was asking what the proper case would be, although it sounds like I will be lucky to find any of those WWI 3" cases...

I did post up my long 3" Seacoast case with the projectile I picked up, but I want to keep them together....

 

[bacarnal]

pzjgr, I'll look at the pub Mon when I get back to work. If it is just shy of 11", say 10.86" (I think) it is a 3" Shrap as it is painted. There were several different 3" Shraps and each with a different length, as I've discovered. The No 1861 doesn't get in to the casings for it and it could be, as you surmise, a very hard casing to find. All I've been able to come up with are the casings for the 75mm FG, both US and French. Cheers, Bruce.

 

[pzjgr]

Well, I finally lucked into a proper 75mm shrapnel for my 75mm case...found it on eBay, but the M1907 fuze was really banged up from impact, all slewed to one side. I was just going to toss it, but decided to try to "fix" it...

After some banging and prying I got the three segments seperated from the main piece and post. The bottom two segments were ok shap wise, the top portion I had to work on with a hammer on an anvil. The center post was listing severly, and it wasn't going to be persuaded into place, so I ended up grinding it to death so the segments would go back on and sit straight. Once everything was as straight as I was going to get it, I JB welded it all back together using the ground central post as a guide.

All in all it turned out pretty good, good enough for display!

First pic shows the eBay pic from the auction...I could only download the main pic, but you can see how it is slewed...the second pic is it finished...

 

[HAZORD]

There are a number of things you need to consider, depending on how accurate you want things to be. First of all, your 75mm case is not U.S. The U.S. didn't stamp their cases that way and it isn't a U.S. primer. So if you want the round (Case and projectile) to be accurate, then you need a U.S. case to go with your projectile. And you should be able to find a better fuze and adaptor for your projectile, they are quite common in the U.S. in much better shape.

Next, your 3 inch shrapnel is not Navy. Army field guns and AAA guns used a double crimping groove. Navy did not. And the red projectile (should be flat red not gloss) with black lettering is very correct for colors. I'm not sure if your projectile is for the field gun or the AAA guns. I will need to consult the length of your projo versus charts for the different rounds.