Oerlikon and Hispano

[smle2009]

Hi to all,
been having a bit of a sort out of my 20mm Hispano and Oerlikon projectiles and need a bit of help with the colour codes please,
I'm fairly 'clued up' on the meanings but a bit stuck with periods as it would seem from all the fantastic 'charts' members have posted on various threads that some colour codes changed some time between the end of WW2 and the 50,s for example the normal tracer on the Hispano,charts show a black projectile with the manufactures info and the tracer sign in red stencil,a T with a separated half circle above it, and also shows a black projectile with manufactures info but with a red band above the drive band.
There are also various colour codes that are declared obsolete so trying to find out from which periods and which colour codes 'tie up' together.
Need help with British and U.S versions if possible.

Also I notice that most of these projectiles you come across nowadays have the brass fuze cap unpainted,is this just a collectors 'fad' as any charts I have seen show the fuze cap also painted?

Cheers
Tony

 

[jiipee76]

I have 1940s complete colorchart from original Oerlikon brochure in a book.The chart which i have,all the brass fuze caps are unpainted.

But,book also tells that Oerlikon used 3 different color codes in 1930-1940s.

 

[TonyE]

Tony: I don't have much post war on this as I don't collect 20mm, but the attached is from the British 1943 manual.

Hope it helps,
TonyE

 

[smle2009]

Many thanks to the both of you,
TonyE the colour diagrams you posted are the same as I have on my PC but didn't have the text or a date of 1943,so very helpful indeed and many thanks,just got to find out when some of those obsolete ones were around.

Jiipee,
many thanks,any chance of a scan of your chart please? as you can see from the set that TonyE has posted and from the few other bits of info I have managed to find the Oerlikon has the fuzes painted also,so your info is new to what I have.

All the best
Tony

 

[raymeketa]

Tony

Type​	Filling​	Color​
HE Mark 3​	Tetryl​	White​
HE Mark 3​	Pentolite​	Yellow​
HE-I Mark 3​	Tetryl and Incendiary Mix​	Red​
HE-I Mark 3​	Pentolite and Incendiary Mix​	Light Pink​
HE-T Marks 4 and 7 (see Note 1)​ ​	Tetryl and Tracer​	Light Gray​
HE-T Marks 4 and 7 (See Note 1)​ ​ ​ ​ ​	Pentolite and Tracer​	Blue​
AP-T Mark 9​	Tracer​	Black​
BL&P Mark 3​	Inert Loaded​	Dark Green​
BL&T Mark 7​	Inert Load and Tracer​	Dark Green with Yellow Stripe​
Drill​	Empty​	Seal Brown​
HE-I-T​	N/A​	Bright Green​
Notes:​ 1) These rounds were also issued with Dark Ignition tracers. These were indicated by a 0.125 inch (0.318 cm) band of bright red paint located midway between the bourrelet and the rotating band.​ 2) The Mark and Mod, manufacturer's initials or symbol, and lot number are stamped around the body of the projectile.​

　​

 

[raymeketa]

Tony - The above chart is USN for the WW II period I believe. It has been reproduced many times on the different Forums so you may already have it. USN color codes for all ammunition larger than 20mm have changed several times over the years. It's nearly impossible to keep up with them. Plus, there were periods of overlap as they transitioned from one code to the next.

So, good luck.

Ray

 

[raymeketa]

US OP 911, March 1943


AMMUNITION FOR 20 mm. A.A. GUNS MARKS 2 AND 4

There are SIX types of ammunition as follows: (A) High Explosive, with Tracer, projectile type "HL" loaded with Pentolite, an explosive formed by combining equal parts of TNT and PETN. Color of projectile-Blue. (B) Same as (A) except projectile is loaded with Tetryl. Color of projectile-Light Grey. (C) High Explosive, without Tracer, projectile type "HB" loaded with Pentolite. Color of projectile- Yellow. (D) Same as (C) except projectile loaded with Tetryl. Color of projectile-White. (E) Blind loaded with Tracer. Color of projectile-Dark Green Grey with 1/8" wide Yellow Band. (F) Blind loaded and plugged. Color of projectile-Dark Green Grey. NOTE-The above colorings apply to 20 mm. A.A. Ammunition only for Mark 4 and Mark 2. Do not confuse with colors used in other ammunition.

 

[raymeketa]

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/pdf/br932.pdf

Page 87

 

[smle2009]

Hi Ray,
Many thanks,you are are star!
Well I have one of those! the blind(TP-T) with the yellow band,that seems to be the WW2 codes just about sorted out and just the early(ish) post war stuff to date so I can track down the right cases!



All the best
Tony

 

[Weasel]

I have one here that i have not identified, it is a US WW2 20mm Oerlikon projectile with original paint and a red stripe on the body, now reading the info given i was to understand that this would indicate a tracer but there is a complete lack of one. The projectile is painted olive drab as is the fuze which is a brass bodied Mk26 empty of any booster cup holder and focus plate but with a lead ball inserted in it, stampings on the projectile are

DP
20mm Mk111 MOD4
4-42

I have considered that the DP is a badly stamped BP for blind plugged but i am not sure, i do have another projectile stamped up the same minus the paint if you are interested in one Tony. Can anyone add any info on this for me.

 

[smle2009]

Hi Weasel,
not seen this yet!,I think it must be more than just tracer though as it has a fuze.
Yes I am interested in your spare,will PM you very shortly

Cheers
Tony

 

[smle2009]

Just a thought, would not a DP be blind plugged anyway?

Tony

 

[kz11gr]

Hello

here a post-war Hispano

Stamped : M1 Mle 38 M 49 - F - 2-52

 

[smle2009]

Very nice Kz11gr,thanks for showing it to us


Tony