Polymer matrix/ Double acting fuze - Questions

[SLAP_]

Hello lads,

I have two questions:

1. Which was the first hand grenade that had pre-manufactured fragments embedded in a polymer matrix?
2. Are (or were) there any other HG's beside the russian RGO/RGN and the czech URG-86 that feature a time/impact (dual acting) fuze?

Thank you very much!

 

[Francesco_Dif]

1 very hard to answer, maybe some Arges
2 The spanish grenades Expal EA-M5, Oramil MN-1 and POM1; the french Losfeld MD.

 

[Eodtek]

1. Which was the first hand grenade that had pre-manufactured fragments embedded in a polymer matrix?

The US had an experimental version in the very early 1950's.

 

[V40]

Well, I had a nice list of H/G's and I lost it somehow because my time ran out. Anybody ever had this happen to them? I will re-do it tomorrow afternoon, unless I run out of time and again loose everything again. Mods, is there anyway to get more time to post an item or ask questions about an item without getting booted off?

 

[Fragman]

Hi Mark, You can take your time and type up your post in MS word and then copy and paste your reply (gives the added advantage of a spell checker). If you don't have word you can use Windows notepad. Once you have pasted it into the reply box, highlight it all and then select the remove format button (second button in on the left hand side with two A's and a cross) and then post your reply. Hope this helps. Cheers

 

[paul the grenade]

just been looking through a 1975 edition of Janes Infantry Weapons and the following grenades all have steel balls inside a plastic martix
Arges HdGr 69, Diehl M-DN 11, M-DN 31,
Paul

 

[SLAP_]

Could be the first produced model the DM51? Diehl filed the patent for the detachable fragmentation sleeve in 1969. How the fragments are held within the sleeve isn't mentioned in this specific patent but in another one that Diehl filed in 1967. They make no reference to any other patent about that topic and it's part of the claims. However that doesn't have to mean anything.

 

[paul the grenade]

Hi Slap.
From the same 1975 Janes IW, heres some pics of the Belgian PRB 103 which is fitted with a delay and impact fuze.
Cheers, Paul.

 

[Bonnex]

British 'Double Acting' Grenade Fuze



The drawing shows dual purpose grenade fuze developed in the UK during 1944-45.

 

[V40]

I would believe what Eod stated as being the first. However, I believe that it could of been from either: ARGES (Austria), DIEL (Germany, West), or maybe even another Country I haven't heard before. But I guess I would agree with Diehl. IMHO, they make the best out there to the point that they sold SEAL Team 6 some M-DN 11 H/G's. Unknown amout though. If you ever get to see the first time the Taliban tried to kill Karhzid (?) a while back, the SEALS (Team 6) where on their turn at protecting Karhzid when hell broke loose. The team had a memeber dressed up like a local. He is shown in the photograph to have at least one in his belt.

Now, I will try and finish the list of grenades that use Plastic/Polymer along with the "Dual ignition source's": SHG 60 DNW H/G (Austria), Sp1HGr 80/DNW H/G (Austria), Type HG77 (Austria), Type HG78 H/G (Austria), Type HG84 H/G (Austria), Type HG85 H/G (Austria), Type HG86 "Mini" H/G (Austria), Glock SHG H/G (Austria), PRB NR 423 H/G (Belgium), Luchaire LU 213&217 A-APERS-FRAG H/G (France/I believe these may be polymer, do not know for sure?), Losfeld H/G and the Losfeld Multi-Purpose AP H/G This system is using this grenade and attaching it onto a bullet trap tail unit. It then has three modes;Delay, Impact, and Nominal Delay of 5 seconds) France), M-DN 11 H/G (Germany, West), M-DN 21 H/G (Germany, West), M-DN 31 H/G (Germany, West), M-DN 61 H/G (Germany, West), DM 51 Off. & Def.; my favorite(Germany, West), Elviemek EM01 H/G (Greece), Elviemek EM02 H/G (Greece), MU-50/G MISAR H/G (Italy), OD/82 H/G (Italy), NR20 C1 Eurometaal H/G Somebody here has one of these? (Netherlands), M313 H/G (Portugal), M314 H/G (Portugal), M5 & M6 & MB-8 R-41 H/G's are all from (Spain), M75 H/G supposedly developed by Bulgaria, anybody? It is used in Bulgaria, Yugoslavia (Former), Russia, China, Chetchnya, and others probably too numerous to name. Also, there is the M217 fuse for some Hand Grenades that were in our inventory (USA). It is an "Impact" fuse by nature with a built in back up delay of 7 seconds should the grenade not hit anything hard on the way out. However, this fuse can be temperature sensitive, especially in +52C and below -40C.


Paul, sorry if I went with the ones you have. Along with the others too. Thanks Fragman!

 

[SLAP_]

Thanks, guys!

V40, I guess you mean this picture:

A U.S. Special Forces bodyguard assigned to protect Afghan President Hamid Karzai speaks with colleagues after an assasination attempt on Karzai Thursday Sept. 5, 2002 in Kandahar. The attack occurred as the convoy carrying Karzai and Kandahar Gov. Gul Agha Sherzai was leaving the governor's mansion. Sherzai, who was grazed in the neck, was released after being treated at the U.S. air base in Kandahar. Karzai survived unhurt. (AP Photo/Ed Wray)

Eodtek, do you have further information about that experimental model?

 

[V40]

It sure looks like the picture to me. Nice find. How did you know what I was talking about? I cannot get it to download however so I cannot see it up closer. NOTE: Everytime I attemted to it will not take. However the last one I received a virus warning on it immediately?

I also forgot a few more grenades that use the Polymer matrix with either BB's or shreds of wire or 1/8 by 1/8 squares as the V40 used. Bonnex, I have never seen that fuze so close before. Is that the "All Ways Fuze"? I do not have my glasses on at the moment.

Also, upon furthe reading with my glasses on, I found out that a POI AND POMI H/G's (Spain) may have been one of the first. It was designed in the late 1960's. These had ABS Plastic body's. The POI had an "All-Ways" fuze whereby the tape unrolled out with the cap being the heavy portion and arming itself in 10-15 meters away. Ig it should not detonate on impact then the grenade shuts itself down where it is now safe to handle. Also on the POMI once you unsrewed the cap their was a switch on top for delay or impact; you chose before throwing it. Then there is the M313 (Portugal) not very much info on this one. Paul, I got you beat my friend, this is from my "Jane's" Infantry Weapons, 1990-91.

 

[SLAP_]

It sure looks like the picture to me. Nice find. How did you know what I was talking about? I cannot get it to download however so I cannot see it up closer. NOTE: Everytime I attemted to it will not take. However the last one I received a virus warning on it immediately?
[...]

That isn't supposed to happen. "abload.de" never caused any problems. I put it in the forums attachment. Unfortunately it is only a small 512 pixel wide image.