Pre-WW2? Chinese Stick Grenades?

[Kilroy was Here]

Here are photos of a couple grenades I would like to hopefully find out more about. I am sure some of you might have seen these before. They also have been shown on Lex's site for quite a while without any response as to what they exactly are.

I've had this wood stick/handle pictured for over a year, waiting for the grenade heads, and now I've finally received the one fragmented "defensive" grenade head. It's a strange one, it's made of Brass, and it has odd markings or letters on both sides in a language I have never seen before.
(The opening on the brass frag head is a bit smaller than the smooth iron head, and I will make a repro handle for it using this one stick as an example)

I know a little about the history of pre-war and wartime China, but not an expert. I do know there were lots of different types of "Chinese' languages, and many different Chinese fighting for their particular causes, communists, nationalists etc, and of course the Japanese were in China trying to take over, and doing their well known nasty deeds.

So, the fragmented grenade head is made of "Brass", and the smooth grenade head is steel or cast iron. The wood stick fits only the iron smooth head. The wood stick looks to have some type of cotton fiber? or something stuffed in the hole at the top end where the fuze/delay would be.

These were recovered in North China area, and I believe I have in an old email from the seller, the name of the province- prefecture in China where they were found. I can look for this info if that will be of any help.

Does someone have more info on these? Where? Who? When?
Maybe a translation what the markings on the brass head say or signify?

 

[JCB99]

interesting

Hello!
I have seen the smooth egg type before. It is my understanding these were used in the thirties and through WWII. The communists also used these types as well and still use grenades with a similar warhead. The Brass fragmented type is one I have not seen before. Nice finds. I have a Chinese 1930's vintage rifle grenade with a warhead similar to a Japanese Type 97 grenade. I hope to obtain a Chinese Type 23 grenade. The Type 23 was captured in some numbers and used by the Japanese. That is good stuff you have. I wonder if the handle might be a replacement.

Here is a link to a website where you can Identify Chinese ordnance. I suggest checking it out. search for "Chinese Grenade"

http://ordatamines.maic.jmu.edu/default.aspx

Jim
JapaneseOrdnance(at)yahoo.com


link to japanese ordnance page: http://www.castle-thunder.com/wforum/viewtopic.php?t=976

 

[V40]

It looks like in the picture of four on the far left is a WW II Jap grenade. That is totally possible for Vietnam as the Jungle workshops by the VC would of taken the Japanese version and make one of their own versions. The one with the Flat head also could of been used in Vietnam too. The other I am not sure of.

China supplied the NVA with poor grenades with some just having Picric Acid in them. It was the Russians who really gave them the good grenades such as the F-1, RGD-42, I believe it is called the RGK-3. The RK's were used as booby-traps.

I might be wrong too about when they were made? If so please forgive me as I have SOG on the brain tonight.

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Hello!
I have seen the smooth egg type before. It is my understanding these were used in the thirties and through WWII. The communists also used these types as well and still use grenades with a similar warhead. The Brass fragmented type is one I have not seen before. Nice finds. I have a Chinese 1930's vintage rifle grenade with a warhead similar to a Japanese Type 97 grenade. I hope to obtain a Chinese Type 23 grenade. The Type 23 was captured in some numbers and used by the Japanese. That is good stuff you have. I wonder if the handle might be a replacement. I too deal with the seller.

Hi Jim, I was thinking (and hoping) you would probably pop up on this one, but not this fast!!

Yes, we all probably know who this very honorable seller is. He is a very good guy and 100% honest in my book. I cannot say enough good things about him. As far as the stick, he said it is the one that was found with the smooth steel grenade head. It looks to be completely original period to me.

Yes, I agree, the smooth one looks like some Chinese grenades I have seen before.

Thanks for reminding me of "ordatamines" I have visited the site many times. It's sometimes a little hard to surf around that site, but will search as you said, and see if I can find something out.

 

[Kilroy was Here]

It looks like in the picture of four on the far left is a WW II Jap grenade. That is totally possible for Vietnam as the Jungle workshops by the VC would of taken the Japanese version and make one of their own versions. The one with the Flat head also could of been used in Vietnam too. The other I am not sure of.

China supplied the NVA with poor grenades with some just having Picric Acid in them. It was the Russians who really gave them the good grenades such as the F-1, RGD-42, I believe it is called the RGK-3. The RK's were used as booby-traps.

I might be wrong too about when they were made? If so please forgive me as I have SOG on the brain tonight.

Hi, the pic or "four" with my Japanese 98A & 98B was just for size comparison, sorry to confuse you. The wood handle for the Type 98B is a repro I made and aged a bit, but the other 2 sticks shown are original.

All the grenades in that pic are WW2 or earlier vintage. I was also taking pics of my Japanese collection yesterday when I snapped the pics.

All the things from this seller were WW2 era not Vietnam for sure. I bought many other relics, Type 93 mines, Japanese dog tags, a helmet, 2 field hats etc

Here's the rest of my Japanese grenades if you would like to see them.

 

[V40]

Ok I stand corrected.




Just might take a sabbitical for a while.

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Ok I stand corrected.




Just might take a sabbitical for a while.

HaHa, no problem Mark, it's SOG on the brain. Yes, maybe it's time for a sabbatical.........and maybe a couple cocktails or brewskies also?

 

[moondoggy]

Wow! Brass head! Nice stuff!
:top:

 

[wichitaslumlord]

You have a very nice selection of grenades Steve. Thanks for showing them! Pat

 

[JCB99]

good stuff

Steve. Nice pictures. Good stuff. I don't have a lot of Chinese ordnance in my collection. The quality of Chinese WWII ordnance is crappier than Japanese Ordnance. I love the crudity of Chinese and Japanese ordnance. I see you have that Japanese Sectioned training grenade and a Kiska with a large portion of label intact. I can't find a labeled kiska. Nice. I do have a few Type 97's and a Type 91 modified grenade with base labels but not a kiska yet. Labels on ordnance is rare. That is good stuff Steve.

Here is a link to a Japanese Militaria collectors website in Japan. If you scroll halfway down the page there are some interesting pictures of sling grenade warheads with complete fuzes. Unfortunately everything is in Japanese and my translation software is poor.

http://cb1100f-1982.web.infoseek.co.jp/collection3_0a.htm

Jim
JapaneseOrdnance(at)yahoo.com

link to ordnance page: http://www.castle-thunder.com/wforum/viewtopic.php?t=976

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Steve. Nice pictures. Good stuff. I don't have a lot of Chinese ordnance in my collection. The quality of Chinese WWII ordnance is crappier than Japanese Ordnance. I love the crudity of Chinese and Japanese ordnance. I see you have that Japanese Sectioned training grenade and a Kiska with a large portion of label intact. I can't find a labeled kiska. Nice. I do have a few Type 97's and a Type 91 modified grenade with base labels but not a kiska yet. Labels on ordnance is rare. That is good stuff Steve.

Here is a link to a Japanese Militaria collectors website in Japan. If you scroll halfway down the page there are some interesting pictures of sling grenade warheads with complete fuzes. Unfortunately everything is in Japanese and my translation software is poor.

http://cb1100f-1982.web.infoseek.co.jp/collection3_0a.htm

Jim http://www.castle-thunder.com/wforum/viewtopic.php?t=976

Hi Jim, I'm glad you liked seeing the pics, Thanks. I really lucked out on that Kiska grenade with label, that's a rare one for sure. The "sectioned" "Kiska" grenade is an aluminum casting with a bit of weight to it, and pretty crudely made. I think it's a U.S. training aid that was hand made somewhere at one of the training camps/bases during the war. It's interesting, I like it.

Thanks for that great Japanese website, 1/2 way down and further has great ordnance photos. I could not read anything , BUT the music is really neat, kind of a Japanese techno mellow sound.

I saw the pics of the fuze for Sling grenade, that's the first one I've seen, thanks. My T98B or sling grenade that's pictured does not have a hole at the top? I think it was supposed to be fuzed from the bottom somehow, I think I've seen a drawing of a bottom fuze type? Athough it could have been made for use as a stick grenade like I have it displayed, but there are no holes drilled for screws? Maybe it's an unfinished grenade head?

Also on that website is a Type 93 mine fuze that has the safety cap removed and close ups, also great pics of the "yardstick mines" and the charge. Also lots of pics of Japanese planes and other items.
Thanks again for the link.

 

[V40]

Steve,

Yes it could very well be!:tongue: I cannot help myself. I guess I'll just say it out loud: "Hi, my name is Mark and I am a SOG Fanatic!". "Hi Mark!"

 

[Kilroy was Here]

UPDATE- Handle Made for Brass Head

Here's a couple pics of the handle I made for the pre-war Chinese odd brass grenade head. It's not perfect, but looks OK for display. I patterned it after the original stick that fits only the smooth iron grenade head pictured at the start of this thread.

It's hand made only with a Mk2 "Ka-Bar" knife (camillus made) a dremel tool, a drill w/ wood bore bit, some dirt/mud from my yard, and a couple hours of work. :tinysmile_twink_t2: A wood lathe would have been a bit better and faster maybe, but I do not own one. I think if it is "aged and beat up" a bit it will be maybe a little better and original looking. I might beat it up a bit.

Do you think these early Chinese grenades, just would have had a "wood plug" in the holes on the end of handles to seal the pull wires/strings and pull rings or beads? Maybe similar to some other Chinese or Vietnam era? stick grenades I have seen before?

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Wow! Brass head! Nice stuff!
:top:

You have a very nice selection of grenades Steve. Thanks for showing them! Pat

Mike and Pat.....sorry....I never thanked you for you nice comments.......so will do so now....Thank you!
Better late than never as they say........one year late in fact.......
I have more new additions of Chinese pre war and WW2 grenades to show sometime when I get the time......