Projectiles

[west gunner]

Hi,
I was wondering if anyone might know what these are. I bought them a few years ago but dont know anything about them.
The first projectile is 139mm high, has a hexagon shaped base with the sides twisting up along the side of the projectile. The width at the bottom is 50mm. The fuse was removed and it weighs 1.058kg.
The second projectile look like a small shot round. It has 7 flat surfaces on its diameter with two smaller flat surfaces on the top and bottom. It weighs 0.377kg.
When I bought them I thought that they were early pieces and that the flat surfaces engaged with rifling in a barrel. Any idea as to what they are?

 

[US-Subs]

It is a Whitworth bolt (projectile). Developed by the UK, used by the US somewhat during the Civil War. Lots of fakes around, you can find plenty of sites that will help you out on the details.

 

[west gunner]

Hi US-Subs,
Thank you for the info. I think the first projectile is a Whitworth Pattern 1, Sub Pattern 1, but I might be wrong on that! The diameter across the flats and outer diameter match but the lenght is shorter. The example I have is 5.5" not 5 9/16". Does anyone have any idea what the second ball projectile is? Thanks.....

 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Sir,
Are all four photos of the same shell?
The third image from left is a Whitworth shell, not a bolt (sorry Subs), a bolt would be a solid casting, the third has a threaded fuze well which makes it a shell. Do you have its fuze?
Regards,
John aka Bart

 

[west gunner]

Hi John,
No I don't have the fuse from the shell. The first and last pictures in my original post are of a ball typ projectile. The bore of the two items more or less match. The shell: distance between flats is 1.68". The ball projectile: distance between flats is 1.69". So it looks like it was designed to engage Whitworth rifling? I have attached some more pictures.

 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Gunner,
I have seen at least two models of this rifled ball,one of yours and the one below. I don't think this projectile ever made it to service, at least in the U.S. I have seen test results of is firing and appeared to be fairly accurate.
I believe the elongated shell is the one I show below. This has been field recovered near Fort Fisher, North Carolina in the U.s. Civil War.
The rifled spherical ball is a rare one. Can't place a value but suspect a avid collector would pay dearly for it.
Regards,
John aka Bart

 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

The 3 pdr Whitworth Shell, unfuzed

 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Gunner,
After reviewing the size of the rifled ball, ie., .55 across side flats and 1.793 from top to bottom, it has to be a small arms bullet.
The elongated projectile is definitely the 1.7 inch Whitworth shell for the 3 pdr cannon.
Regards,
John aka Bart

 

[John D. Bartleson Jr.]

Gunner and All,
I fear I have mis-understood the dimentions of the rifled ball and would like to reconsider my I.D.
John has stated that the .55 inch diameter refers to the size of the top and bottom flat area.
Its side flat to side flat is 1.7 inches.
This 1.7 inch diameter would make it a prime candidate for the 1.7 inch (3pdr) Whitworth Rifled cannon just like the elongated projectile bought with these rifled balls. My apology to U.s. Subs that it is a rifled bolt.
Regards,
John aka Bart