Question on 105mm rounds

[ajf.350d]

What type of rounds would an M102 howitzer use?
My interest is coming from aircraft and the above is fitted to the AC130U.
Are there specific types for specific guns or is it a case of 105mm howitzer uses any 105mm round?

Are there any good sources for ammunition types, other than Janes?

 

[US-Subs]

I'm not sure about the projos, but the cases are special marked, I believe they are a reduced load. The photos I've seen looked like pretty standard projectiles, but I would expect that the cartridge would have to have a different designation.

 

[rcaf53]

As the round is FIXED ,the case has a mouth crimp.
Frank

 

[Slick]

Here's my example of the airborne 105 shell.

 

[ordman]

The 105mm round used in the AC 130 is designated as a PGU-44/B
The fitting of a 105 mm howitzer on the AC-130 gunship fleet began in 1972. Due to the altitudes and temperatures in which the aircraft operates, a brass cartridge case extracts more reliably than a standard steel one, so existing stocks of M1 High-Explosive (HE) rounds are converted by replacing the cartridge case. Originally, these were designated the M1 (Mod) HE round, but in early 2004 they received the US Air Force designation PGU-44/B. The round has proven popular with Air Force Special Forces and to date, about 100,000 rounds have been reworked.Development is under way on the PGU-43 training round and on the PGU-45 high-fragmentation round. SNC Technologies (which has now been acquired by General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems) will build the high-fragmentation round and probably will build the training round as well.In March 2005, the US Army (on behalf of US Air Force Special Operations) announced a market survey for the production of approximately 23,000 PGU-43/B Target-Practice (TP), 12,500 PGU-44/B HE, and 66,300 PGU-45/B HE High-Fragmentation rounds during fiscal years 2005 to 2009. The PGU-44/B effort is to be a refurbishment programme as before. For the TP round, the US Army will supply the M1 ammunition, and the contractor will replace the Comp B filler with an inert filler and reassemble with new cartridge cases. For the PGU-45/B High Fragmentation round, the contractor will produce the rounds de novo. The most recent budget documentation, released in May 2009, shows the refurbishment of 115,378 rounds through
Description
The PGU-44/B is a reworked M1 HE round. The projectile is removed from the cartridge by the contractor and inspected; the bags of M67 propellant are removed from the cartridge case and are tested. The M14B4 steel cartridge case and the M28B2 primer are destroyed and discarded. A new M28B2 primer is installed in a brass M14 cartridge case, seven full bags of M67 propellant are loaded, and the projectile is placed back in the case neck and crimped into place.An FMU-153/B Point-Detonating (PD)/delay fuze is fitted by the US government. This repackages the internal components of the MK407 Mod1 fuze into the body of the MK399 Mod1 fuze for use as a hard target fuze. It is built by BT Fuze Products (formerly Bulova), a division of L-3 Communications.The high-fragmentation round is designed to optimise fragments for personnel and light material targets while minimising collateral damage and danger-close distances. The programme includes the new FMU-160/B proximity fuze, using the electronics of the M734A1 multi-option fuze.

The Air Force Has implimented a program to upgrade this round as an Insensitive Munition Here's a couple of sites I found that explain the upgrade

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2007im_em/BBriefs/9Campagnuolo.pdf,

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportu...596a5a4582704c377d66ca1c889&tab=core&_cview=1

There are three types of ammunition authorized for use
PGU-43/B105 mm TP (Target Practice); used with 105 mm gun system in AC-130
PGU-44/B105 mm HE (High Explosive); used with 105 mm gun system in AC-130
PGU-45/B105 mm HF (High Explosive, High Fragmentation); used with 105 mm gun system in AC-130

Hope this helps

 

[ajf.350d]

That's some great information. Thank you everyone
I found the official letter interesting too. So the crucial question. What are the chances of finding a casing, preferably with shell, in the UK?
I assume compared to most aircraft munitions these are fairly rare?

Cheers
Andrew

 

[LCplCombat]

One of these empty cases was returned to us in a box at work, along with some empty steel 40mm cases. Attempting to Identify them by our Ammunition Examiners caused a bit of a problem (they needed to be declared FFE before disposal), I was working nearby at the time and they saw me not try to earwig to much so they called me over. I saw the USAF stamp on the bottom and could only think of Army 105mm guns being used by paratroopers but that didn't sound right. They it hit me in a flash of inspiration "Spooky". When I got home I printed the accompanying photo which I found on Wiki. I earned a few brownie points that day.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_AC-130

Unfortunately I couldn't persuade them to give me some samples

 

[Slick]

Here are the ammo storage racks for the AC130.

 

[ordman]

Hey slick
You forgot the coal shovel and push broom
To clear all the expended 20MM and 40MM casings that litter the floor after a mission
I have a picture somewhere showing the crew clearing all the brass out
If i can find it I'll post it

 

[Slick]

Ordman

You'd think those USAF folks would be able to figure out that a lowering of the ramp and a 45 nose up would do the work for them.

Rick

 

[HAZORD]

Speaking of the ramp, years ago I had met and listened to the stories of a USAF NCO that had been involved with the "prototyping" of the first use of the 105 howitzer in the C-130 when he was station in Vietnam or Thailand. He said they had strapped a howitzer down to the ramp to experiment with shooting it at ground targets. The highlight of the story was that when the aircraft returned from the first flight, a high percentage of the rivets were missing from the tail, most likely from the concussion of the gun firing and the recoil.

 

[ajf.350d]

I would imagine it mounted up quite a bit on a mission and from the previous picture, despite the size of the plane it looks a little cramped to say the least!

Those prototypes test sound a bit crazy too. The side presumably is a better location for the intended purpose anyway? From what I have read they fly elliptical patterns when putting down fire?
I've always hoped one would come over for the Fairford airshow but not heard of one ever visiting.

 

[Slick]

The AC130 guys are all about being "undercover". Their facilities at Keesler AFB are behind fences and they only come out at night. All planes are hangared with the doors closed. Had a major connection there and he couldn't get me access. I've been to dozens of USAF open houses and never once was an AC130 on display. Not sure why they're so secretive.