Question regarding 7,7 cm K.Gr. 15 m P.

[pzgr40/42]

Was the 7,7 cm K.Gr. m P. used as a seperate load, or as a complete cartridge ... or both?
Both projectiles in my collection show the vertical "gash" in the crimp-grooves that corresponds with a vertical "ridge" on the inside of the necks of 7,7 cm cartridge cases, which suggests "complete cartridge".

But this does not technically exclude the projectiles being employed as a separate load from a separate propellant casing.

I know different models of 7,7 cm fieldgun emplpyed different systems for loading (either "complete round" or separate load), so I'm curious to know wheter or not the K.Gr.15 m P was used across the full spectrum of 7,7 cm fieldguns employed during WW1.
I would also be interested to know wheter or not this projectile was used in conjunction with either part steel or full steel shell casings.

In advance thanks very much.
Menno

 

[Alpini]

For the K. Gr. 15 m. P. it's the same as for most other shells: cartridge ammunition for the F.k.96 n/A and separate loaded in the F.K.16.

The material of the cases didn't play any role. All were used.

 

[greif]

A 1917 handbook is showing the cartridge for the Feldkanone 96 n/A.

Apparently the shell was still in the inventory during the Interbellum. Detailed drawing is from the H.Dv. 481/11 (1934).

 

[pzgr40/42]

Alpini, Greif, thanks for your answers, they are very helpfull

Greetz,

Menno

 

[Irod7]

Technically, from a ballistic point of view, the shell would work with either FK 98 n/A and also FK 16. But there are two nuances here.
First is that in an antitank gun, you want the flattest trajectory and the biggest muzzle velocity obtainable. So partial loads make no sense in this use and give poor results. Therefore, if used with the FK16, it would have been only fired with a full charge.
The second is that actually, for dedicated antitank role and infantry support the Germans used some converted FK 98 n/A (both old gun repurposing and newly built) with 1m wheel diameter, removed lower shield and removed gunner chairs and attachments. This created a lower and lighter gun, which was called, depending on the source, Nachkampfkanone / Nachkampfgeschütze / 7.7cm Infanterie Geschütze L/27 Krupp. I have not heard of any FK16 being employed in such roles.

So, I would say that putting the shell in an FK16 case would not be technically wrong, but also not very plausible IMO.

 

[Alpini]

The gun was called F.K.96 n/A - not 98 n/A.

The K.Gr.15 m.P. with separate case was regular provisioned for the F.K.16 and yes only 2nd charge (the largest) was used. In emergency situations it was allowed to use the shells like normal K.Gr.15.

The K.Gr.15 m.P. L'Spur was only fired from the F.K.96 n/A (I don't know why) and only in brass cartridge-cases.

Only the first batches of K.Gr.15 m.P. in Feb. 1917 had to be delivered to the Nahkampf-Batterien (100 pieces per gun). Later all guns were equipped with them (theoretically).

 

[JulienCD68]

Hello,
Here on this photography, a shell 7.7cm K. Gr. 15 mP with her case.

Best regards.

 

[pzgr40/42]

Fabulous information!
Thanks guys!!!

 

[MINENAZ16]

Hello,
Here on this photography, a shell 7.7cm K. Gr. 15 mP with her case.

Best regards.

It's the first time I see an original picture of german ww1 15cm with two white bands.
Gr 12 or Gr12 n/a ?
Our old documentations show 15cm GR12 n/a with two blue bands.

 

[JulienCD68]

It is difficult to distinguish a color in a black and white photo.
I think they are indeed 2 blue bands. The documentation points in this direction.

 

[Irod7]

The gun was called F.K.96 n/A - not 98 n/A.

My bad, I was writing from memory.

Thanks for the further info.