Rare USA 37x178 case

[Hoeksel]

In my collection I have a rare 37x178 mm case with a 1942 dated primer. It is manufactured by the American Armament Corporation. I know of 3 types of 37 mm by this company:

- 37x202 S.A.-gun (semi-automatic)
- 37x202 A.A.-gun (anti-aircraft) --> still looking for this one!
- 37x178 A.T.-gun (anti-tank)

The last one I did only know it existed when I found it. After some intensive "Googling" I did find this round has been used in the Dutch Marmon-Herrington tanks as used in Suriname (a former Dutch colony).

I was wondering if anybody knows of other use for this round then the Dutch Marmon-Herrington tanks.

 

[Tony Williams]

I can't answer your question, but there was at least one other 37mm AAC case, a 37x87R intended for a turret-mounted aircraft gun.

Can you tell me the rim diameter of your 37x178R case please?

 

[HAZORD]

Tony,

I have 5 different American Armament marked case types, although the AA gun and AT gun cases look to be the same case. Do you have any information about the larger Aircraft Gun case, that appears to be the same as fired in the P39 Aircobra? The smallest one appears to be the one you mentioned about the turret mounted gun.

The projectiles were in the specific cases as shown, when I got the rounds. The solid steel one appears to be a hollow drill projo, thin walled.

I'm interested in any info you have about the American Armament products.

John

 

[Tony Williams]

I don't know for sure, but I think that the model F (for "Fixed" gun - as opposed to model M for Mobile, in the turret) used the 202mm case. The muzzle velocity quoted for the model F was 2,700 fps, compared with about 2,000 fps for the P39's M4.

 

[HAZORD]

Thanks Tony!

By the way, I read and enjoyed your article in the latest Small Arms Review.

John

 

[Hoeksel]

I can't answer your question, but there was at least one other 37mm AAC case, a 37x87R intended for a turret-mounted aircraft gun.

Can you tell me the rim diameter of your 37x178R case please?

The 37x178R has a rim of 54.3 mm.

A might be mistaken about the long version of the AA, I have heard something but not seen the case.

From Gordon I got a very, very nice article about AAC, I will ask him if I may post it here. This article shows 4 types of ammunition and some history about AAC.

 

[fert]

Hi guys
thanks for sharing.
are these experimental ammunition?
did American Armament Corprationd makes only experimental ammunition??

best regards

 

[Gspragge]

I can't post it without permission , copyright

I will email it to interested parties how ever. PM me.

I don't know of any American Armaments munitions used in the Airacobra or Kingcobra.(as standard issue) The T9 gun, M4 & M10 autocannon fired the 37x145 standard U.S. subcaliber casing MKlllA2 or reloaded 1918 37x145 cases. The M9 Autocannon fired the M17 AA casing.

For automatic feed the U.S. 37mm MK1 canister was fitted with a rounded wooden nose, likely a 1930s experiment, copying the French idea.

What is this Merriman tank?

 

[Hoeksel]

I don't know of any American Armaments munitions used in the Airacobra or Kingcobra.(as standard issue) The T9 gun, M4 & M10 autocannon fired the 37x145 standard U.S. subcaliber casing MKlllA2 or reloaded 1918 37x145 cases. The M9 Autocannon fired the M17 AA casing.

For automatic feed the U.S. 37mm MK1 canister was fitted with a rounded wooden nose, likely a 1930s experiment, copying the French idea.

What is this Merriman tank?

Much info about the Marmon-Herrington tank is on www.overvalwagen.com/tanks.html

 

[SG500]

Tony,

I have 5 different American Armament marked case types, although the AA gun and AT gun cases look to be the same case. Do you have any information about the larger Aircraft Gun case, that appears to be the same as fired in the P39 Aircobra? The smallest one appears to be the one you mentioned about the turret mounted gun.

The projectiles were in the specific cases as shown, when I got the rounds. The solid steel one appears to be a hollow drill projo, thin walled.

I'm interested in any info you have about the American Armament products.

John

WOW John that's an excellent collection there! It has answered one query I had - I've got one identical to the third from the left in the first photo of yours, wasn't sure if the projectile was correct (thought it went in the SA Gun round) but it appears it went in the AT round also, thanks.
Dave.

 

[Gspragge]

Canister

This is an XXXXXX

WRONG WRONG WRONG ! The case had a COLT headstamp I'm informed ! experimental ---------

canister that sold some years ago. I don't have the headstamp image. But the case should be easy to match with this distinctive shape. The canister is an adapted MK1 type. This is the only MK1 I have ever seen.

 

[Burney Davis]

That shape case would never fit the gun would it Gordon? Or am I missing something?

BD

 

[Hoeksel]

Here a picture of a dummy I once had in my collection. It is a 37 mm S.A.-gun with a wooden middle piece. It was a bit longer (210 mm opposed to 202 mm) then the normal S.A.-gun shell case. Not sure if this was original.

By the way; if somebody has a AAC case for trade/sell, I am very interested in any type.

 

[Gspragge]

canister

The case with the canister is the A Colt experimental case, I don't know what fired it ? I will see if I can get the headstamp image (Not Available). The other information relates to the canister but the 37x92 case loading in the manual has nothing to do with the Colt use of it.

 

[RichardB]

Hi Hoeksel

Im normally only interested in Tank -Anti-tank rounds, but I did pick these two items up from a good friend on this forum last year. Both M17 37x223SR rounds, AP and APC. I believe these might have been used in the P39 Air Cobra as Hazord suggested, but also possibly AA and PT boat use.

If anyone wants to educate me further or correct me, please do. Eitherway, they're two nice rounds.



Rich

 

[Gspragge]

If they are in the below

attachment then yes in the M9 Cannon in the Kingcobra if so armed.

Thanks Tony, ( see posting further on) I have read that the Kingcobra was designed for it, but had my doubts that they ever did. it would have been very effective if they had.

 

[Tony Williams]

The M9 cannon (a belt-fed, lightened version of the AA gun firing the same 37x223SR ammo - as opposed to the 37x223R used in the tank/anti-tank guns) was only fitted to one, prototype P63D (it seems to have been experimentally installed in at least one twin-engined plane as well). The plane can easily be recognised as it was the only P63 fitted with a bubble-type canopy.

A few of the guns were retrofitted to PT boats (as, more commonly, were many 37mm M4 cannon) but that was their only service use AFAIK.

The P63 started with the usual M4 cannon but this was replaced in later versions with the M10, which was based on the M4 and fired the same 37x145R ammo, but used a disintegrating belt feed to increase the ammo capacity and had a slightly higher rate of fire.

 

[Tony Williams]

Hi guys
did American Armament Corprationd makes only experimental ammunition??

AAC was a very dubious organisation with a flair for publicity. They were officially investigated in the USA at one time. They offered a range of different weapons (I have a photocopy of a catalogue somewhere, but unfortunately no ammo details), and gave the impression that they were big and successful manufacturers, but the only service use was a few very obscure installations in remote countries, such as already mentioned.

A year or two ago I exchanged correspondence with someone who was collecting material for a definitive history of AAC, their weapons and ammunition. Unfortunately that correspondence was lost when my PC died, and I don't recall who it was.

 

[fert]

AAC was a very dubious organisation with a flair for publicity. They were officially investigated in the USA at one time. They offered a range of different weapons (I have a photocopy of a catalogue somewhere, but unfortunately no ammo details), and gave the impression that they were big and successful manufacturers, but the only service use was a few very obscure installations in remote countries, such as already mentioned.

A year or two ago I exchanged correspondence with someone who was collecting material for a definitive history of AAC, their weapons and ammunition. Unfortunately that correspondence was lost when my PC died, and I don't recall who it was.

many thanks Tony
best regards