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Soviet Mortar round...
- Thread starter V40
- Start date
ordman
Well-Known Member
I did I miss something in my long and illustrious military career?
When did the Russians field a 122mm mortar
I know they fielded a couple of 122mm Howitzers and rockets and 120mm mortar systems
122 mm howitzer M1938 M-30
122-mm howitzer D-30
122mm Russian designed BM-21 rocket
M1938 120-mm mortar
2B11 Sani 120mm mortar
2s31 vena 120mm self-propelled mortar system
2S9 Nona-S 120mm howitzer/mortar system
I'd like to see one of them 122mm too
And hear the story
Just my 2 cents
When did the Russians field a 122mm mortar
I know they fielded a couple of 122mm Howitzers and rockets and 120mm mortar systems
122 mm howitzer M1938 M-30
122-mm howitzer D-30
122mm Russian designed BM-21 rocket
M1938 120-mm mortar
2B11 Sani 120mm mortar
2s31 vena 120mm self-propelled mortar system
2S9 Nona-S 120mm howitzer/mortar system
I'd like to see one of them 122mm too
And hear the story
Just my 2 cents
ordman
Well-Known Member
Last edited:
Mark, well, once I happened to work very close to LS85 and after I had the chance to research this in the internet I did so. Plenty of interesting info and details I found there. I read everything I could find and got really excited. So every time I hear about LS85 or related subjects an alert goes off in my head.
By the way, that North Vietnamese bombing raid was the only one carried out during the whole Vietnam war.
If you have any more details on those 120mm I would be glad to hear about. Were any duds recovered?
By the way, that North Vietnamese bombing raid was the only one carried out during the whole Vietnam war.
If you have any more details on those 120mm I would be glad to hear about. Were any duds recovered?
Once you've inerted one and it's at the units training aids library/museum, you have to be VERY careful where you put it. If you set it on its tail fins in a high traffic area, the chances of it being knocked over and leaving a crater in the floor have now risen to a certainty. Don't ask me how I know these things. :tinysmile_twink_t: Cheers, Bruce.
V40
Well-Known Member
http://home.earthlink.net/~aircommando1/secord85.html
I am totally aware of the situ on the site. Like you I have been gathering up bits and pieces on the biggest FUBAR of the Vietnam War. According to some sources that were there, a total of 50 converted Soviet 120mm into small bombs were released. I do not know how many duds there were. I imagine there were a few though. Also, did you know that the AN-2's NATO Codename of "Colt" were also loaded with the Russian made 57mm rocket pods. They hit the site and really made a big bang when they hit.
What I have always tried to figure out was the fact that they were located only 10-20 miles away from North Vietnam and when the north flew a MIG-17 NATO Code name of "Fresco" the day before the attack and it was flying in a way that convinced a lot of people to think it was doing some photo reconnaissance. They would only have to wait less than 24hours to find themselves on the only NVAF rocketing and bombing on Site 85 ever. It made history for them bombing us and for us to shoot down two of the AN-2's by a Huey UH-1. However, and you might know why Alex, is the fact that the if the NVAF could have MIG-17's in their air force, why did they elect to go with the bombing and rocketing by the Colts instead of the more accurate 17's? Not only would they have probably gotten most all of the site but also succeed in putting out the TACAN out for good!
Everybody in intelligence from in country analysts to intelligence agencies such as the CIA and MACVSOG along with Ambassador Sullivan (Asshole, x99) new that the NVA were planning on overrunning the site from the very beginning. Jeez, the helicopters, CH-46's that were responsible for carrying up the equipment to the site, were shot at from the ground by unknown soldiers at the base of Phu Pha Ti. Alex, I know you know all about this, what is your opinion on the aerial attack of site 85, i am very interested to know your thinking on why everybody new that it was just a matter of time before the NVA and Pathet Lao would take it over?
There is an old Intelligence adage that goes like this: "If (the enemy) they are building a road near you then YOU ARE THE TARGET!"
There were also some intelligence gathered up at the two sites where the Colt's crashed, the third one was burned beyond recognizable as an airplane (Bi-Plane). Both were found by the MEO forces within an hour and secured the sight until the CIA came by which was almost two hours later. Supposedly, there were pictures taken of the modified mortar rounds and there launching devices. Have you seen this picture?
Hopefully more to come after you?
I am totally aware of the situ on the site. Like you I have been gathering up bits and pieces on the biggest FUBAR of the Vietnam War. According to some sources that were there, a total of 50 converted Soviet 120mm into small bombs were released. I do not know how many duds there were. I imagine there were a few though. Also, did you know that the AN-2's NATO Codename of "Colt" were also loaded with the Russian made 57mm rocket pods. They hit the site and really made a big bang when they hit.
What I have always tried to figure out was the fact that they were located only 10-20 miles away from North Vietnam and when the north flew a MIG-17 NATO Code name of "Fresco" the day before the attack and it was flying in a way that convinced a lot of people to think it was doing some photo reconnaissance. They would only have to wait less than 24hours to find themselves on the only NVAF rocketing and bombing on Site 85 ever. It made history for them bombing us and for us to shoot down two of the AN-2's by a Huey UH-1. However, and you might know why Alex, is the fact that the if the NVAF could have MIG-17's in their air force, why did they elect to go with the bombing and rocketing by the Colts instead of the more accurate 17's? Not only would they have probably gotten most all of the site but also succeed in putting out the TACAN out for good!
Everybody in intelligence from in country analysts to intelligence agencies such as the CIA and MACVSOG along with Ambassador Sullivan (Asshole, x99) new that the NVA were planning on overrunning the site from the very beginning. Jeez, the helicopters, CH-46's that were responsible for carrying up the equipment to the site, were shot at from the ground by unknown soldiers at the base of Phu Pha Ti. Alex, I know you know all about this, what is your opinion on the aerial attack of site 85, i am very interested to know your thinking on why everybody new that it was just a matter of time before the NVA and Pathet Lao would take it over?
There is an old Intelligence adage that goes like this: "If (the enemy) they are building a road near you then YOU ARE THE TARGET!"
There were also some intelligence gathered up at the two sites where the Colt's crashed, the third one was burned beyond recognizable as an airplane (Bi-Plane). Both were found by the MEO forces within an hour and secured the sight until the CIA came by which was almost two hours later. Supposedly, there were pictures taken of the modified mortar rounds and there launching devices. Have you seen this picture?
Hopefully more to come after you?
Mark,
Yes, I read the details on the S-5 rockets too. Wish to see an image of an AN-2 with those pods mounted - must look odd.
You may overestimate me, I have no founded opinion on why the NVA used AN-2s instead of their MIGs. The reasons may be so manyfold that it will be hard to list them. Guessing will not help much here I think.
Knowing the site will be overrun, strange ambassador etc: this is dirty politics and people like us will knever know what really has happened.
120mm shells: I have no other details than available in the internet. Even though a collegue of mine once went up to LS85, he said all is littered with US submunitions (duds) and all is torn to pieces. Also it is likelier that you may find some more info since you are located in the US and certainly you have better connections than I do.
As for the shells I assume that they were used as they were and just were fitted with a simple bomb fuze like the AM-A / AM-Abv. Again this is a guess.
Any new info is much appreciated.
Yes, I read the details on the S-5 rockets too. Wish to see an image of an AN-2 with those pods mounted - must look odd.
You may overestimate me, I have no founded opinion on why the NVA used AN-2s instead of their MIGs. The reasons may be so manyfold that it will be hard to list them. Guessing will not help much here I think.
Knowing the site will be overrun, strange ambassador etc: this is dirty politics and people like us will knever know what really has happened.
120mm shells: I have no other details than available in the internet. Even though a collegue of mine once went up to LS85, he said all is littered with US submunitions (duds) and all is torn to pieces. Also it is likelier that you may find some more info since you are located in the US and certainly you have better connections than I do.
As for the shells I assume that they were used as they were and just were fitted with a simple bomb fuze like the AM-A / AM-Abv. Again this is a guess.
Any new info is much appreciated.