Soviet WW2 F1 Grenade?? OR Post War???

[Kilroy was Here]

Hello!! I have been offered this one, and I know already the fuse is an earlier Koveshnikov without the slots, on the side of cap/handle. They type that flies off completely when released. Nice WW2 fuse, and would like to get it. They are hard to find here.

The question for other members if you would be so kind as to offer your opinions, AND why you came to that conclusion, would be appreciated.

F1's are all starting to look the same to me. French, Russian etc. I have asked about the threads and sizing of this body, no reply yet, but soon. He said there is a "50" or SO" on the body, but have to look close because of the pitting.

Is this a Russian WWII grenade Body?? It appears it could be, but not as "knobby" looking as others I have, and have seen??

Regards, Steve

 

[dano1917]

F1

Hey Steve, As far as the F1 body goes, the design goes all the way back to the defensive F1 WW1 French grenade. I'm not familiar with WW2 grenades to say the least, but it would be fair to say that the body is the familiar WW1 f1 defensive design. In WW2 the tried and true defensive F1 body was re-fuzed in several configurations including the basic Russian fuzed model. Several countries adopted this body in WW2 adding their own fuze, in fact well after WW2. This F1 body showed up in a mind boggling array of fuses. May not be making a lot of sense here but the F1 body turns out one of the most versitile designs of contemporary times, as even in WW1 the different fuzes used by the french and American soldiers draw your conclusions. My favorite is the French WW1 defensive F1 with the well known percusion fuze. More people than not relate this particular body with being of a Russian design. Steve, I know that I in no way even came close to answering your question but guess I just had to throw in my 2 cents worth. I love the F1 in all configurations. Food for thought...that kind of thing..... Dano

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Hi Dano, yes, thanks, but I am kind of familiar with the of these, a little already. :nerd: HaHa
The early Russian F1's had plugs/screw bottoms, I think either lead of steel. My example is a steel plug, and marked B4. I made a post on it, one of my first here, with pics you can look at. It's early from the 30's most probable.

What I was meaning to get opinions on, was that most, not all "Russian WW2 era" F1 Grenade bodies exhibit very poor casting, and many/most have different small differences depending on the factory that cast them. the diff. are there, you just have to look at a lot of them :nerd:

The poor casting sometimes looks like pitting often, even though it has never been buried for 65 years. This body kind of looks like that, and it also has a very rough seam where the two castings were put together. The neck on this one looks a little funny to me for some reason. Maybe the pic.

I will also have to get some pics of the markings he mentioned that are on it. Now he says the fuse will only screw in as far as the pic. Threads could be rusted a bit, and needs to have a tap run through it.

It may be another countries post war grenade body from the 50's 60's that was a buried relic, or artificially aged :xd:

I really want the fuse, maybe he will throw the body in for free!! :tinysmile_fatgrin_t

Regards, Steve

 

[dano1917]

F1

Sorry Steve, I guess I totally missed out on what you were asking. The F1 castings all look so similar to me and I apologize for my seemingly "numb-nutted" answer. If the F1's that have come and gone from my collection all bodies bore slight differences which I had attributed to different casters etc. Nice Fuze there and if that's what you're after then get it. Wish I could be of further assistance. And yes there is quite a pronounced mold seam on that example. Cheers. Dano

 

[paul the grenade]

Looks like a good early F1 to me.
The early russina F1s had a rounded base and filling hole and later ones have a flatter base and no filling hole. French 1ww F1s always look very Knobbly with big frags. The patina on the fuze and body look similar so i would say they are original to each other.
Cheers, Paul.

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Sorry Steve, I guess I totally missed out on what you were asking. The F1 castings all look so similar to me and I apologize for my seemingly "numb-nutted" answer. If the F1's that have come and gone from my collection all bodies bore slight differences which I had attributed to different casters etc. Nice Fuze there and if that's what you're after then get it. Wish I could be of further assistance. And yes there is quite a pronounced mold seam on that example. Cheers. Dano

Hi Dano!!, no problem, really, did not mean anything towards you. I was just hoping to get detailed, and wanted to share grenade pics also. I think with this grenade, I must see the marks he says are on it. There might be Cyrillic letters of numbers. A cyrillic 2 looks just like a "B" I found out recent. if you look at my other pre-war, fill plug/screw bottom F1 I posted a bit ago, that F1 has a B4 marked on it. The B must be a cyrillic 5 ? Why would they use 2 methods or numbering??

Maybe a real F1 expert, who has 300 of them will jump in here sometime.
Odd Russians :neutral: It's hard to figure their stuff out sometimes.

That is why I have focused somewhat lately on Russian WW2. Many variations, and very interesting to say the least. I just bought a nice wartime Red Star order & Bravery medal to display w/ my growing Grenade collection. Looks good. Will post sometime.

Collecting is endless for someone with an OCD. :tinysmile_cry

Regards, Steve

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Looks like a good early F1 to me.
The early russina F1s had a rounded base and filling hole and later ones have a flatter base and no filling hole. French 1ww F1s always look very Knobbly with big frags. The patina on the fuze and body look similar so i would say they are original to each other.
Cheers, Paul.

Hello Paul, good to hear from you!! OK, thanks for your opinion, you could be correct, like Dano also might be. The grenade is not much $ and I think I would pay what is asked just for the fuse. The fuses are hard to find here. Are they over the pond?? Some Russian WW2 F1's are very knobby looking I think, but them some are not. That is what is hard to figure with these.

Here is pics of some Finnish F1's I found, that have the threads modified to fit the SYT-55 Finnish fuses. They are supposedly captured Russian grenades, and look it, and are very knobby looking I think. They have been re-painted by the Finnish, but quite a while ago. The fuse on my example looks to be dated 1960. It shows this fuse on Lex's site, but he did not use these pics of the modified grenade bodies I sent. Funny Dutchmen. HaHa :xd:

I am still not sure of this F1 body, I will have to see more when I get it, or if he can get a pic of the marks he says are there "SO" or 50" If not WW2, I can use it to have my dog play fetch. She has strong teeth.:xd:

Regards, Steve

 

[1944kam21]

Steve ,you have original russian grenade with fuze koveshnikow ,like hundreds still in Poland in the ground. Koveshnikow in original condition looks like that:xd:

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Soviet Finnish F1 pics/ SYT-55 Fuse system

More pics of the Soviet/Finnish F1. The threads are larger diameter, and finer. Steve

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Steve ,you have original russian grenade with fuze koveshnikow ,like hundreds still in Poland in the ground. Koveshnikow in original condition looks like that:xd:

WOW, that is a NICE example with the detenator too!! Is that yours?? How about finding me some of the 100's of grenades and fuse?? :tinysmile_shy_t:

I am still not covinced about this body until I see the marks. The neck looks funny.

Regards, Steve

 

[1944kam21]

Is that yours?? How about finding me some of the 100's of grenades and fuse?? :tinysmile_shy_t:

Hi ,yes it mine. I can find some f1 grenade body. But can be a problems with shipping stuff like this to USA (customers ,x ray etc)
This Koveshnikow in mint is in my collection only! Sorry.

 

[Kilroy was Here]

Hi ,yes it mine. I can find some f1 grenade body. But can be a problems with shipping stuff like this to USA (customers ,x ray etc)
This Koveshnikow in mint is in my collection only! Sorry.

Hello, OK, yes I have seen this fuse before, I think the same one on Lex's site. Again, very nice, you are lucky to have it. It looks brand new, but it 71 years old. Very rare I am sure.

I have 4 of these fuses so far, 2 different types early, and later Koveshinikov's, and 2 with the handles broken off. I have heard the Russians broke the handles off for use when setting booby traps.

Have you heard of this?? Is this true??

I have bought items from your area a few times. Most always it has to go "Slow Boat" shipping for something that looks like a F1 "pineapple" hand grenade. some other type less "dangerous" looking" grenades can go by Air with fuse removed and sent in separate box or envelope. I have had good luck so far, and met some very nice people.

I have interest in more Koeshnikov fuses, WW2 UZRG also, F1's and also another 1 or 2 RG42 for the collection. RG-42 looks like an oil filter for a motorcycle or small car. :neutral:

Regards, Steve

 

[grenades]

About early russian grensades.On the begining Russian bought from France some part of french F1 from wwI.On the begening of wwII Russians was useing french F1 and copy of this grenades wich they made by them self.
On pictures you can see 4 russian F1.2 and 3 has russian markings the last french.I have seen meny russian F1 with french markings.

 

[Kilroy was Here]

About early russian grensades.On the begining Russian bought from France some part of french F1 from wwI.On the begening of wwII Russians was useing french F1 and copy of this grenades wich they made by them self.
On pictures you can see 4 russian F1.2 and 3 has russian markings the last french.I have seen meny russian F1 with french markings.

Hello, very good information. Thank you. Here is picture of another F1 in my collection. I have been told it is a Russian made F1. The Koveshnikov fuse on this grenade, the handle, and cap do not come off the grenade when thrown. It was designed that way. Why??

The 3 fuses you show now are different, without the slots in the side of cap. They look shorter also. These 3 fuses you show, the caps and handles are supposed to come off (fly off) completely when thrown.

Which Koveshnikov fuse style is the early design, and which one is the late design? OR, were they both made at the same time period? and why the different fuse cap styles???

Regards, Steve