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TM Bomb

doctor

Well-Known Member
Hi
Here two TM bomb British from WW1
Fuze time are N65A Trench or N27 which is similar
HE filling like Amatol 80/20
detonator in paper tube which is a gaine charging with Lyddite
On the base of the bomb is a copper plate for gaz Check
Three line of two guided pivot on body
Perhaps a Sutton mortar system
Caliber about 100 mm or 4 in
Found only on North France (Nord-Pas de calais and Nord Picardie)
Sometime with plug
No doc of trench howitzer
Gaz pressure or powder loading?
 

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Typical RML (Rifle Muzzle Loaded) Shell, normally has a plate, cup under for pressure seal as the side driving band is not adequate
 
RML Projectiles General Info

These were shot, Palliser shot common shell, Palliser shell, shrapnel case and star. Palliser projectiles, both shot and shell, were cast hollow and closely resembled one another. Designed for the attack of iron-clad ships and masonry, filled shell were not fuzed; the heat generated on impact was sufficient to explode the gunpowder filling.

Early projectiles of all natures except case were fitted with brass or gunmetal studs shaped to run in the grooves of the rifling according to the 'Woolwich' system copied from the French. As they had to be pushed by hand down the bore against accumulated fouling from gunpowder cartridges - and often in a hurry - projectiles had to be loose-fitting. In other words windage had to be generous.

In addition to windage there was 'clearance,' i.e. the space between the height of the stud above the body of the projectile, and the depth of the groove into which that stud fitted.

When a shot or shell was rammed home the studs bore on one side of the groove, and on being fired they bore on the other. The former was called the 'loading edge', and the latter the 'driving edge'. Designers hoped that by inclining the sides of the studs and making the sides of the grooves similar in shape, on firing the studs would have a tendency to run up the sides of the grooves, and so centre the projectile in the bore. The idea was only partially successful.

A more positive method of centring was invented by Armstrong who smartly switched to making RML guns in 1864 when his RBL types were no longer wanted. In his 'shunt' system of rifling each groove may be considered as two grooves, a shallow groove towards the driving edge, and a deeper one towards the loading edge. In loading the studs followed the loading edge, keeping in the deep groove, but on coming out bore against the driving edge, shunting into the shallow groove. Thus the projectile was properly centred. The figure shows a section of a shunt bore.

Armstrong's system was adopted for some heavy equipments, notably the RML 7-inch but in 1870 was discontinued, no doubt over expense not only of the composite groove but also the studs which were of pure copper.

From the drawing it will be seen that the studs will be 'shunted' into the shallow grooves, thus centring the projectile.

Pic 1

Section of bore and projectile showing Armstrong's shunt system.
As windage and clearance allowed a significant amount of propellant gas to escape over the RML projectile, RML guns were not as efficient as their RBL equivalents. When the Ordnance Select Committee concerned reported that their RML guns compared favourably with the RBL they did not mention that the former required rather more powder in their cartridges than the latter! Not only did windage and clearance adversely affect the efficiency of the RML gun but the hot, high velocity gases rushing over the projectile caused severe erosion of the bore, particularly in the grooves. This wear greatly exceeded that in RBL equipments. Strange to relate, some of the anti-BL Officers saw the situation as an advantage as it enabled continued use of the old SBML wooden time fuzes initiated by the flash from the propellant charge.

To cut down wear at first a papier mach (moulded paper pulp) gas check was inserted between the cartridge and the base of the shot or shell in the chamber, but in 1878 was replaced by a corrugated copper disc bolted to the base of the projectile as shown in the figure opposite.

When the gun fired propellant gas pressure tended to flatten the corrugation in the copper disc, thus expanding the rim against the lands and into the grooves of the rifling. On some of the heavier projectiles, including the one in the figure, the rim of the disc was formed with studs in line with the projectile studs. On projectiles for guns with an increasing twist in the rifling the gas check was permitted to rotate.

The shell illustrated is of Palliser form, of cast iron with hardened head, a 64-pr intended for use against masonry.

Pic 2

Showing corrugated copper gas check fitted to base of shell.

As might be expected the use of gas checks resulted in a significant increase in muzzle velocities. Then the experts woke up! Gas checks also blocked flash from the propellant charge from reaching the old wooden fuzes still used with common shell and shrapnel. Fire holes had then to be drilled in the rims of gas checks to allow enough flash to reach them. Later it was found that the gas check alone could provide the means of rotating the projectile, so studs were dispensed with. Also, it was realised they did not have to be bolted to the projectile. In some of the very heavy equipments the gas check was loaded separately.

Readers will no doubt have noted the comparatively slow rate of twist in the rifling of RML guns; a faster twist would have sheared the stud off the sides of the projectiles. Hence shot and shell were short; between two and three calibres in length. So-called 'double shell' were slightly longer than the normal but could be used for short ranges only. With heavier guns on sloping platforms a 'wedge wad' had to be loaded after the projectile to prevent it 'setting forward' when the gun came to a sudden stop at the end of runout. Without this precaution a gun was likely to burst on firing. Wedge wads were used with guns of 64-pr and upwards, and were issued in two sizes.

Opposite: A 'wedge wad' consisting of two pieces of wood joined by a piece of cane, loaded immediately after the projectile. Two sizes were issued. The larger in which the wedges measured 7 inches and the cane 7.5 inches was for Guns of 9-inch calibre and upwards. In the smaller the cane was 6.5 ins and the wedges 5.5 inches. It was for guns from 64-pr up to and including 8-inch.

Pic 3

Grommet wads were used in the same manner as wedge wads for smaller guns when required to fire at angles of depression.

Further experiments with gas checks revealed that studs on the rim of the copper disc of the gas check as shown above were unnecessary; that with a simple saucer-shaped gas check, studs on the projectile could be omitted.

With no studs on the projectile it was possible to revert to a shallow grooved polygroove system of rifling similar to that which Armstrong had pioneered in 1859. Thus in 1875 the 6.3-inch 18-cwt howitzer became the first RML piece to be rifled with a polygroove system, and to be fitted with the new gas check as depicted here.

Opposite: Note that the diameter of the shell is more than that of the earlier shell being 6.25 inches, ie windage had been reduced to 0.05 inch. As already stated, although a number of guns were made in 1878 they were not rifled until 1880.

Pic 4

Shell RML 6.3-inch Howitzer Mark 1
 

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At the beginning, I thought of the same thing like you but the shell weighs empty is 1.685 kg, walls are very thick, 5 mm as well as the bottom of the shell and what is strange it is fuze reserved for trenches mortar and setting on?
On the fuze is noted 65 A TRENCH, and also 27 is for TRENCH
Only these fuzes setting on are found
I know the system that you explain here, very good explain but i think my shells is an other system because the walls and tail is too thick to resist to a big pressure on loading in a gun
The thick copper plate on the base is fixing in a groove near the tail
 
Further to my last and I have found out the following from another source:

The 4 inch Trench Howitzer, or mortar tube was constructed from a projectile bored out and rifled nose down with a bipod arrangement. The only time the British have ever taken into service a rifled mortar.
The firing system was a converted .303 rifle breach. The round weighed 8.5 pounds with an NEQ of 3.5 pounds the book states of TNT. There is a thin copper gas check plate on the base that expands into the rifling on firing, this can be easily damaged in transit and loading. Fuzing, the No65A is similar to the Time and Percussion No65 Mk2, but was of new manufacture not a conversion. It used the No65 bodies that had been rejected on inspection. It became the No27 and was approved for service on the 26/04/16.

It did not work well with the 2 inch spigot mortars and was restricted for use with the 4 Inch only. A variation was the No65S for Naval used with the Davis gun. There is no data as to why the change was made to the numbering system. Possibly due to confusion on manufacture I think. It was declared obsolete on 01/02/19.

JP
 
4inTM

Thank you very much Jayteepee, it confirms what I supposed for a long time
:top:
 
I've seen a photo on the IWM website of this 4-inch mortar bomb from WWI. But i've never been able to find any references to actual combat use.. histories I've found only discuss the 2-inch, 6-inch and 9.45 inch in use by infantry divisions.

The bomb does not look like the designs that Britain used for the others, it's more like the German Minenwerfer bomb design. It certainly wasn't around at the start of WWI, so is this something that was evaluated during the war without it entering service ?
Rod
 
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4in

Nice, I've seen it last year at IWM, it's this one I think, different off my type
i think and old bomb with N31
We can screw this fuze when we withdraw adapter for N65A of my bomb
 
4 in RML

A few pictures comparing the two types of projectile. The copper studded one on the right is slightly longer than the one on the left. It can be seen that the threads are very different on each projectile, the older design using an adapter to accomodate the fuze.

BD
 

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4 in

Hi
the reason for this various thread eyes is that there's no screwing gaine used with N 27 or 65A Trench Fuzes
Wonderfull pictures to denote these differents types mortar bomb
thanks
 
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