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undentified 15 pound Boer war Round

K

Kaboom

Member
Hi
Could everyone please help identify from the photos this 15 pounder Boer war round with possible grappling device.
It may be the rarest device of this time period out there.
If anyone has seen one before or read about it please i would love to know all about it.
We all have our thoughts what it is and what it could be used for.
Sadly i dont own this but the gentlemen who does, does not have a computer and has been the owner of it for many years and has no idea what it was used for
This was never fired and driving band is still intact.

Enjoy the photos and seeing this rare piece

15pdr 24.JPG15pdr 23.JPG15pdr 22.JPG15pdr 21.JPG15pdr 20.JPG15pdr 19.JPG15pdr 18.JPG15pdr 17.JPG15pdr 16.JPG15pdr 15.JPG15pdr 14.JPG15pdr 13.JPG15pdr 12.JPG15pdr 11.JPG15pdr 10.JPG15pdr 9.JPG15pdr 8.JPG15pdr 7.JPG15pdr 6.JPG15pdr 5.JPG15pdr 4.JPG15pdr 3.JPG15pdr 2.JPG15pdr 1.JPG
 
Keep looking timG as you might have the only information about it. would love to see a copy of the patent
 
A few of these around in NZ ( Well at least 2!) , believed to be WW1 and manufactured for one battle (possibly local/in field manufacture) and apparently not used,as the battle fronts moved so quickly at times.
There is one in an NZDF defence school collection and extensive research,including Pattern room and Woolwich Arsenal, failed to find any official drawings or conclusive details about actual use.

The one i have examined did not have any markings on the grapple item,and looked to be bespoke production with signs of hand finishing.

It utilises the standard 15pdr Shrapnel projectile,and is a heavy item on its own.

Believed to be designed as barbed wire barrage rounds. To rip out the barbed wire barricades.

Similar type projectiles were designed as anti- Zeppelin,ripping rounds.

Pic of the (at least) other one!
15pdr grappleNZ.jpg

There has also been previous thread on BOCN about this item,with no further detail obtained.
 
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Hi Kahu1
its a great discussion piece isnt it.
The only issue i see with this being used for WW1 is that this is a Boer War Round and Fuse, though i believe the fuse was still in service during ww1. I havent found any evidence of NZ practicing with this fuse before WW1. NZ were practicing using No65a (limited numbers) and then went to No 80, No 83, No 85, No 88, and No 106e fuses. So i dont see why they would use these type of rounds and fuse in WW1 when they already had designed better fuses and were already using 18 pdr by WW1.
Also who were using 15pdr during WW1?? (i havent looked into this side of things yet)
Regarding the argument this was possibly used for barb wire. would the trajectory they need to take out barb wire need to be more horiztontal than anything (not very practicle). Too much arc and it wouldnt serve its purpose.
There was talk about it designed for taking out ships rigging which is plausible except i dont think there was a 15pdr naval gun?
i
 
I think part of the reason it wasn't used was the inability to lower the gun.
The expression 'Use the old ammo first' seems to be fairly common early on in conflicts,so could account for earlier date?.
It is a solid piece of steel so unlikely to fly far anyway with only the shrapnel bursting charge to launch it out of the carrier shell.
The fuse on the one in my pics is the same type and vintage,so possibly the story has been corrupted along the way.
If it was Naval use might explain why no info on it as naval ordnance information always seems very scarce.
Like you say an interesting piece,and slightly frustrating to ID!.
 
With acknowledgement to USPTO, the rest of the patent shown by Minenaz16 -

"An object of my invention is to produce an improved projectile of the expanding type adapted for use in the cutting and tearing away of submarine periscopes, aircraft guy wires, fighting masts, wireless antennae and barbed wire entanglements."

TimG

View attachment 2.pdfView attachment 3.pdfView attachment 1.pdf
 
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Great photos Kahu1

Its good to know there is another one out. Maybe its twin.
Because it seems that these 2 might be the only ones out there and they are in NZ ...... Maybe someone in NZ invented them and had constructed them for one of the wars.
We are pretty clever down this part of the world.
Interesting to note on your pictures it seems to be missing cup at bottom that holds gun powder for shrapnel charge.
Fantastic stuff.
Great discussions. Love it
 
Very interesting indeed!

The patent shown is dated 1917/1918 by F. Ross (USA), yet the 15pdr projectile is a MkIII which were produced in the late 1890s, made by UK Royal Labs (RL) - some 17 years earlier......................

A clever and ingenious use of a shrapnel shell.
 
Exactly Dronic69.
Im very certain it was designed for use in the Boer war. Fuse and round all point to this era.
The manufacturing of this projectile is simple, crude and well constructed and fits snugly inside the 15 pdr.
 
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