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Unknown Brittish fuzes
- Thread starter pzgr40
- Start date
J
John D. Bartleson Jr.
Guest
Early Percussion Fuzes;
DH,
All four are early British Percussion Fuzes used in the Woolwich System (Copper Studded) projectiles. They are all nose mounted fuzes. Looking at your image from L to R, the first two appear to be very early, possiboly 1870s forerunners of the No. 3 Direct Action Percussion fuze. and the last two are definitely the forerunners of the Armstrong Piller Fuze which did not prove successful and were dropped long before the 1887 numbering system. The last two attachments shows the No. 3 getting its start as one of Col. boxer's DA Percussion fuzes.
Perhaps Burney Davis and Bomar can add to this one.
Note: All attachments view best at high zoom.
Regards,
John aka Bart
DH,
All four are early British Percussion Fuzes used in the Woolwich System (Copper Studded) projectiles. They are all nose mounted fuzes. Looking at your image from L to R, the first two appear to be very early, possiboly 1870s forerunners of the No. 3 Direct Action Percussion fuze. and the last two are definitely the forerunners of the Armstrong Piller Fuze which did not prove successful and were dropped long before the 1887 numbering system. The last two attachments shows the No. 3 getting its start as one of Col. boxer's DA Percussion fuzes.
Perhaps Burney Davis and Bomar can add to this one.
Note: All attachments view best at high zoom.
Regards,
John aka Bart
Last edited by a moderator:
J
John D. Bartleson Jr.
Guest
Posting and View times are too short;
The postings are not staying on the main page long enough for anyone to open and view them. This one stayed about two minutes.
Best Regards,
John aka Bart
The postings are not staying on the main page long enough for anyone to open and view them. This one stayed about two minutes.
Best Regards,
John aka Bart
J
John D. Bartleson Jr.
Guest
B.O. and w.D.;
To All Interested,
I know some of the members may be tired of this post coming back to the main page. But I have three additional questions that apply.
The member that originally posted the fuzes said, in a PM to me, that the fuzes were stamped W.D. ( War Department) with the purser's arrow.
1. When did England shift from stamping Fuzes B.O. (Board of Ordnance) to W.D.?
2. As shown below, the Boxer metal time fuses (naval use) never received a fuze number, What fuze replaced them when the numbering started?
3. Does the presence of B.O. and W.D. indicate service acceptance? The below fuses were dug at San Lorenzo island off Peru and the B.O. fuse was also sold to the Confederate States and issued unmarked. See previous I.D. fuse posting byh me.
Regards,
John aka Bart
To All Interested,
I know some of the members may be tired of this post coming back to the main page. But I have three additional questions that apply.
The member that originally posted the fuzes said, in a PM to me, that the fuzes were stamped W.D. ( War Department) with the purser's arrow.
1. When did England shift from stamping Fuzes B.O. (Board of Ordnance) to W.D.?
2. As shown below, the Boxer metal time fuses (naval use) never received a fuze number, What fuze replaced them when the numbering started?
3. Does the presence of B.O. and W.D. indicate service acceptance? The below fuses were dug at San Lorenzo island off Peru and the B.O. fuse was also sold to the Confederate States and issued unmarked. See previous I.D. fuse posting byh me.
Regards,
John aka Bart
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Nice drawings again John.
I hope some one can help you with what you want to know.
I hope some one can help you with what you want to know.
John,
In answer to your first question, the B of O was incorporated into the War Office by an 1855 Act of Parliament and became the War Department in 1857. It would therefore be logical to assume that the B of O markings were discontinued by 1857 at the latest.
BR
BD
In answer to your first question, the B of O was incorporated into the War Office by an 1855 Act of Parliament and became the War Department in 1857. It would therefore be logical to assume that the B of O markings were discontinued by 1857 at the latest.
BR
BD
I'm afraid I have little to add to John's comments. The two on the right are almost identical and I have one the same but it is an unidentified percussion fuze.
BD
J
John D. Bartleson Jr.
Guest
Thanks Very Much;
Mad Bomber and Burney Davis;
Thank you for the kind comment and Darrel for you input on the dates.
The two fuzes at right are identical, and if you look at the business end of the striker and the idea behind the design of the lead safety collar, well they fit the design of the Armstrong Pillar fuze to a tee.
Okay all you Englanders, keep the answers coming.
Regards,
John
Mad Bomber and Burney Davis;
Thank you for the kind comment and Darrel for you input on the dates.
The two fuzes at right are identical, and if you look at the business end of the striker and the idea behind the design of the lead safety collar, well they fit the design of the Armstrong Pillar fuze to a tee.
Okay all you Englanders, keep the answers coming.
Regards,
John
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J
John D. Bartleson Jr.
Guest
Unidentified British Percussion Fuze;
To All Interested;
I am adding my rendering of the unidentified British Percussion Fuze to show the likeness of the upper portion of the striker and the lead safety collar to that of the Armstring Pillar Fuze which went out of servicebefore the 1887 numbering system went into effect and because it was also obsolete to due in barrel explsions. If anyone has a reference please let me know by PM.
Regards,
John
To All Interested;
I am adding my rendering of the unidentified British Percussion Fuze to show the likeness of the upper portion of the striker and the lead safety collar to that of the Armstring Pillar Fuze which went out of servicebefore the 1887 numbering system went into effect and because it was also obsolete to due in barrel explsions. If anyone has a reference please let me know by PM.
Regards,
John
Last edited by a moderator:
J
John D. Bartleson Jr.
Guest
British Percussion Fuze;
To All Interested;
Below is another version of the original right hand fuzes.
My low vision will not permit me to determine if the primer is located in the end of the striker, as in the previous sketch, or in the top closing plug.
does anyone have any identification on this fuze. Notice it does have a War Department (wD) mark.
Regards,
John
To All Interested;
Below is another version of the original right hand fuzes.
My low vision will not permit me to determine if the primer is located in the end of the striker, as in the previous sketch, or in the top closing plug.
does anyone have any identification on this fuze. Notice it does have a War Department (wD) mark.
Regards,
John
Last edited by a moderator:
The design of these --
Is pretty much the same as the 1888 Nordenfelt patent. Lead is no longer used but they work the same it seems to me. I guess nobody patented these or he couldn't have patented his I bet. The problem must have been the soft lead, versus the stiffer brass collar Nordenfelt used. Though after a ship blew up in the Thames and it was blamed on the Nordenfelt fuzes, they were taken out of service, except for the 1 pr fuzes.
Is pretty much the same as the 1888 Nordenfelt patent. Lead is no longer used but they work the same it seems to me. I guess nobody patented these or he couldn't have patented his I bet. The problem must have been the soft lead, versus the stiffer brass collar Nordenfelt used. Though after a ship blew up in the Thames and it was blamed on the Nordenfelt fuzes, they were taken out of service, except for the 1 pr fuzes.
J
John D. Bartleson Jr.
Guest
Can you post an image and line drawing of the fuze you mentioned?
Regards,
John
Regards,
John
Reading my UK 1936 Textbook of Ammunition, it seems that Boxer and Armstrong fuzes may have co-existed for a time and that fuzes were generally known by the name of whoever designed them (eg Freeburn fuzes for the army, Moorsom fuzes for the Navy, Boxer, Pettman and Armstrong). Boxer fuzes were introduced in 1850. Page 299 says that `Armstrong's fuzes were introduced on 13th April 1860, for use with the equipment of RBL guns. The first was known as the `A' pattern, and was made of white metal. Numerous modifications and marks, the nomenclature following the musical scale, succeeded one another in rapid succession, until type `F' was evolved, which was approved on 21st September 1867, as the first `time and percussion' fuze.' The percussion arrangement was unreliable and was withdrawn from service (no date stated), leaving the E Mark III as the only fuze in general use with Armstrong guns. It was a brass fuze, originally used in naval shell only but later was recognised as being very suitable for use in shrapnel shell.
`On 12th December 1881, Sir William Armstrong brought out a combined time and concussion fuze, afterwards numbered `52', an amalgamation of the E time fuze with a graze percussion arrangement and was similar to later (World War One, presumably)time and percussion fuzes.'
Page 303 states that Fuze Percussion DA No 3 was approved on 17th November 1880.
The first base fuze to be introduced in UK service was Fuze, Percussion, Base, Hotchkiss on 9th April 1886.
`Fuze, TP, sensitive, middle, No 24 was introduced on 28th May 1887' for use in guns that were relatively low velocity.
Fuze, Percussion, base, Armstrong, No 9 was introduced for QF guns on 24th August 1890.
Fuze, Percussion, base, large, No 11 was introduced in 1894 for Palliser and common pointed shell.
Fuze T&P No 58 was in 1901 approved as the first UK fuze to use a double time ring.
The No 80 type fuze was introduced in 1905 for use in 13 Pr and 18 Pr guns. Earlier fuzes of this type are of aluminium to Krupp's design.
The Germans appear to have been the first to invent mechanical time fuzes, to overcome the inconsistencies in burning time of fuzes that relied on a burning train of powder in their time rings.
Page 301 states that Commander Moorsom of the Royal Navy invented a graze percussion fuze that was approved for sea service on 16th July 1851. The fuze was made of gunmetal, was cylindrical and had a right hand thread to the Moorsom gauge that was larger in diameter than previous systems. It had three chambers, each containing a patch of detonating composition, over which was suspended a gunmetal hammer by means of a wire. A leaden pillar and a guard wire were incorporated as safety arrangements to prevent premature action.
I hope this is of some use. Unfortunately there are no diagrams. My book mentions that the fuze details can be found in various editions of ammunition text books (Treatise of Ammunition?) and early volumes of `List of changes'.
`On 12th December 1881, Sir William Armstrong brought out a combined time and concussion fuze, afterwards numbered `52', an amalgamation of the E time fuze with a graze percussion arrangement and was similar to later (World War One, presumably)time and percussion fuzes.'
Page 303 states that Fuze Percussion DA No 3 was approved on 17th November 1880.
The first base fuze to be introduced in UK service was Fuze, Percussion, Base, Hotchkiss on 9th April 1886.
`Fuze, TP, sensitive, middle, No 24 was introduced on 28th May 1887' for use in guns that were relatively low velocity.
Fuze, Percussion, base, Armstrong, No 9 was introduced for QF guns on 24th August 1890.
Fuze, Percussion, base, large, No 11 was introduced in 1894 for Palliser and common pointed shell.
Fuze T&P No 58 was in 1901 approved as the first UK fuze to use a double time ring.
The No 80 type fuze was introduced in 1905 for use in 13 Pr and 18 Pr guns. Earlier fuzes of this type are of aluminium to Krupp's design.
The Germans appear to have been the first to invent mechanical time fuzes, to overcome the inconsistencies in burning time of fuzes that relied on a burning train of powder in their time rings.
Page 301 states that Commander Moorsom of the Royal Navy invented a graze percussion fuze that was approved for sea service on 16th July 1851. The fuze was made of gunmetal, was cylindrical and had a right hand thread to the Moorsom gauge that was larger in diameter than previous systems. It had three chambers, each containing a patch of detonating composition, over which was suspended a gunmetal hammer by means of a wire. A leaden pillar and a guard wire were incorporated as safety arrangements to prevent premature action.
I hope this is of some use. Unfortunately there are no diagrams. My book mentions that the fuze details can be found in various editions of ammunition text books (Treatise of Ammunition?) and early volumes of `List of changes'.
For John, in short, your diagram might be of a Moorsom fuze. XT
