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Inert ordnance data sheet

paul the grenade

paul the grenade

Well-Known Member
Right, lets get the ball rolling.
heres a rough idea i have to catalog all my grenades and hopefully if the worst happens and i get a visit from the authorities (again) it will give them something to assure them my collection is safe. If anyone has any good ideas to make it a bit better let me know.
If we can get this sorted and it becomes a recognised document That we all use it could make all our lives a bit easier. It should be easy for it to be used for any item, not just grenades.
Let me know what you think.
Cheers, Paul.
 

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Hi Paul, that's very good and well done that would be very useful in keeping things in order
Regards
Andy
 
And who would know better but a collector and expert?
I hereby nominate Paul as a Certified Certifier.
 
Hi Paul,

i didnt mean to be facetious in any way just that i dont think that you are certified[maybe in another way lol] to self certify things as FFE. I thought only certain qualified people could do so and hereby lies the quandary. I could write FFE on all of my stuff but it wouldnt mean anything in law. That was the point ime making.

Andy
 
gothica7 said:
Hi Paul,

i didnt mean to be facetious in any way just that i dont think that you are certified[maybe in another way lol] to self certify things as FFE. I thought only certain qualified people could do so and hereby lies the quandary. I could write FFE on all of my stuff but it wouldnt mean anything in law. That was the point ime making.

Andy
Click to expand...

This is exactly the dilemma that collectors find themselves in. In the absence of a civilian FFE regime exactly who can certify an article to be FFE?
My view is that in order to satisfy our obligations (duties) under various pieces of legislation the best option is to self certify as Paul has done.
It may be better re-inforced by having some "legalese" wording on the datasheets. I'll look at some options and post them.
Your esteemed leader Spotter is actively looking at a recognised registration scheme. Stay tuned.
 
OK,
rather than write out a piece of paper umteen times, which is a complete waste of time on every item, why not just self certify your whole collection?

I think this is where it all falls down and without any official guidelines what is the point of making up our own rules? After all, the powers that be wont take any notice, will they?

Andy
 
First draft - it has absolutely no legal status - comments??

Free From Explosives (FFE) ​
Certification form​
I certify that the article(s) to which this form relates and which are identified by the unique reference number(s) ********* are kept in compliance with the below listed legislation and in respect of each article I declare that they are free from explosives (as defined in ‘i’ and ‘ii’ below) and additionally are not subject to any regulation or prohibition (as prescribed by ‘iii’ below).
Date....................Signature.................................Print name..........................................

(i) Control of Explosives Regulations 1991
(ii) Manufacture and Storage of Explosives Regulations 2005
(iii) Firearms Act 1968 (as amended)
 
I dont think anyone will take any notice of it, especially as its not a legal document. So whats the point of it?

Andy
 
Doing a quick search, it appears there are assorted companies offering certified FFE documentation. Mostly EOD sites. "Trained Professionals", as they are. I'd offer that the majority of collectors hereabouts would be overqualified, but to become annointed by a government entity might not be worth the effort as attempts would be pooh-poohed by those in charge. Ran into this mind-set years ago with gunsmithing. Won't bore you with details, but was commonly called for input on repairs by "official" "armourers".
My guess is, to have a mere collector sanctioning their items would be ignored, at best, by the authorities.
 
Hi Paul. Looks like a good idea. It may also be beneficial to include a inert inspection verification method to help point the authorities in the right direction. This "may" discourage someone from trying to unscrew/remove a piece of the item that is frozen in time and damaging it. Cheers
 
Whilst this may not be a legal document, it would show to the relevant Authorities that you take your responsibilities as a collector and member of society seriously. I think the Exat808 wording and Paul's design put together would at least show to whom it may concern in the future that we are people that have the up most integrity and respect for the law.
 
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Slick said:
Doing a quick search, it appears there are assorted companies offering certified FFE documentation. Mostly EOD sites. "Trained Professionals", as they are. I'd offer that the majority of collectors hereabouts would be overqualified, but to become annointed by a government entity might not be worth the effort as attempts would be pooh-poohed by those in charge. Ran into this mind-set years ago with gunsmithing. Won't bore you with details, but was commonly called for input on repairs by "official" "armourers".
My guess is, to have a mere collector sanctioning their items would be ignored, at best, by the authorities.
Click to expand...

You are correct Slick. There are numerous commercial EOD operations in the UK (MACC, EODTEC, RAMORA, ISSEE, FELLOWES INTERNATIONAL etc etc) who will offer FFE certification (at cost). Their certification has exactly the same legal status as my specimen - zilch! However, I think its worth having a bit of faith in getting some recognition by the enforcing authorities. Minority hobby groups have a proven track record of success in influencing change in explosives legislation in the recent past.
 
Heres a new draft using exat808's wording. These may not have any legal standing but we have to start somewhere. Hopefully this will catch on and eventually it may get recognised by the Police and EOD.
Keep the coments and ideas coming.
Cheers, Paul.
 

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I think it is a great idea for a number of reasons like whenever you aren't there to explain or you are visited by idiots. I have been considering a similar approach, especially regarding larger items. Granted, it will be a hassle, but the more information in the document, the better. If you could include sectional drawings and a disassembled photo, even better.

I was thinking about it, regarding large projectiles with base fuze, which aren't easily inspected due to size and weight, and base fuzed projectiles that are inserted tightly into cartridge cases.

For normal nose-fuzed projectiles, a photo with the fuze removed and a ruler or something else inserted to show that the cavity inside is empty would be a bonus.
 
Hi Paul,
Thank you for taking the time to put that together, and thank you to Exat for your input and help.
This is a interesting idea and we have to start somewhere if we aim to get a workable document, there is no reason why this cant be adapted to include multiple images to show "items" assembled and disassembled as well as any other relevant information. I will watch this thread with interest to see what else is suggested.
Best Weasel.
 
Hi All,
I think this is a corking idea. I agree with all that say we have to start somewhere and this is really an excellent start. With the lack of clarity and definition as it stands currently in law, I think the onus is on us as responsible individuals to start this process. This builds from a resposible collection of individuals on this forum, to a resposible group (BOCN) and maybe its a start to get a recognised profile from an official perspective (a bit like ECRA is for ammuntion collecting). I think doing nothing is not an option and even though at the moment the wording and documentation has no legal status, it proves a level of due dilligence is being actively sought by us. We will never convince those that dont like us, but I think acting responsibly and being seen to act responsibly can only be a good thing!
Well done all
Mark
 
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