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  1. #1
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    What is this lump?? French 120mm??

    IMG_4136.jpgIMG_4135.jpgIMG_4137.jpg


    Good morning,

    They just keep on coming...

    Now I have this 120mm projectile, and on first impressions, thought perhaps a French 120mm HE. Having checked measurements against the (very few) documents I have, height (467/468mm) and diametre (120mm) suggested a French Mle 1890 or 1914, however these models have a fuze socket internal diametre of 47mm (according to my docs), yet the diametre on my model measures 40mm?? I'm wondering whether this shell should have had an adaptor?

    Interestingly, a Belgian 'Fuze de Place' fuze fits this shell....? Maybe Belgian? But with no grooves in the drive band?
    Unfortunately, no stampings.
    The distance of the driving band from base to band is 26/27mm, which incidently has come away from the shell in one area. Looks as though someone has tried to prise it off maybe?

    Either way, I'm stumped!

    Any help would be much appreciated!
    Many thanks in advance

  2. #2
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    Hello,
    Could be a French HE 120mm model 1890 modified.
    Body of model 1890 with 30mm adaptor (for 22mm fuze) was modified with 40mm adaptor (for 30mm fuze), then with 47mm adaptor (for 24mm fuze).
    Regards

    120mm mle 1890 modified.jpg
    Last edited by MINENAZ16; 7th July 2019 at 07:55 PM.
    Any Live or Dug ordnance shown by me has been disposed of by EOD personnel .

  3. #3
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    Many thanks Minenaz16,

    That clears that one up!
    Thanks for the illustration too, the measurements match exactly. I was hoping you'd chip in....
    Regards!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MINENAZ16 View Post
    Hello,
    Could be a French HE 120mm model 1890 modified.
    Body of model 1890 with 30mm adaptor (for 22mm fuze) was modified with 40mm adaptor (for 30mm fuze), then with 47mm adaptor (for 24mm fuze).
    Regards

    120mm mle 1890 modified.jpg
    Hi Minenaz16, Is this a shell that you find often on the Great war battlefields of France? If so, was it one that was used in great numbers or more of a limited 'obsolete' shell? Many thanks in advance.

  5. #5
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    Hello,
    Not very common (but used) on ww1 battlefields because of obsolescence (modified shells with 24mm fuzes and model 1914 (same long shape) with 24mm fuze were more used).
    Any Live or Dug ordnance shown by me has been disposed of by EOD personnel .

  6. #6
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    Many thanks for the info Minenaz16, much appreciated.
    I had one last question; Do you think the driving band is original to the shell? The reason I ask is that some of it has sprung away from the shell body and been 'glued' back (but failed) although the rest of the band seems well seated. Is this a typical band profile and rifling for this type of shell?
    Sorry....thats 2 questions.....!
    Many thanks in advance!

  7. #7
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    Hello,
    I didn't say it in my first post but I noticed the driving band is strange (looks rebanded ?).
    Not very common shell, so first I thought it could be a different band on this model. So possible wrong band.
    You could compare with other original fired bands :

    Model 1890 (first original model with 22mm fuze)
    120 1890 original.jpg

    Model 1890 modified with 40mm gaine (same as your shell) :
    120 1890 modified thread 40mm.jpg


    Model 1914 fired and unfired
    120 1914 unfired.jpg120 1914.jpg
    Last edited by MINENAZ16; 14th July 2019 at 09:54 PM.
    Any Live or Dug ordnance shown by me has been disposed of by EOD personnel .

  8. #8
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    Thanks again,

    Now I'm certain this shell has been rebanded. The closest it resembles is your 2nd picture (1890 type with 40mm gaine), but it has no fanning or spreading of the grooves. Also the inside surface of the band has wavy 'grooves', yet the shell band recess has none (probably because someone has used a grinder on them!! If they were ever there...)
    Shame....
    Put this one down to a miss!

 

 

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