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Strange German 37mm PAK Cartridge Case

M8owner

Well-Known Member
This is listed for sale in the US as a Pak 36 37mm round. I am not certain if the projectile is a reproduction or a Flak 18 AP. However, I have never seen a Pak case marked like this. It looks like it has a 1944 date. I would love to get your thoughts. I am going to guess it is Hungarian or Romanian made.
 

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Have a look at the thickness of the base ;-). It's a naval 3,7 cm S.K. C/36 case.
 
The 3,7 cm C/36 case was used in the naval 3,7 cm Flak M42.
Compared with the Pak case it has a thicker rim. See picture below.
 

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this one?

Bob

Yes, it's correct


@Greif: do you know any background about Flak M.42? I ask because powder bags of these cases were marked 3,7 cm S.K.C.36 and they are often loaded with AP shells.
 
The Pawlas Waffen-Revues nr. 106 and 107 are giving an elaborate technical description of this gun and its history.
One specimen of the gun remains on the U 995 at Laboe (near Kiel) in Germany.
Next to the German Navy Memorial the U 995 acts as a technical museum.
See https://deutscher-marinebund.de/marine-ehrenmal-u-995/technisches-museum-u-995/

The U boats often fired at sea targets with their gun(s), so I think in this caliber (3,7cm) AP shells were needed to succesfully penetrate the hull of a ship.
 

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Thank you, I did read the article but it isn't mentioning anything about the strange name Flak M/40 which is an unusual designation for german naval guns (of course I have no doubt that it is the correct weapon for this case). The designation given in the headstamp of german naval cases is normaly the name of the gun. And here's a photo of the powder bag also with the '36 gun designation. Confusing isn't it?
 

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I agree with you, it is very confusing. I consider the Pawlas Waffen Revues as a reliable source, but as you say nowhere in the article the name Flak M42 is explaned.
I wonder if there is a MDv for this gun and its ammo. Thank you for showing the powder bag.
 
Yes, it's correct


@Greif: do you know any background about Flak M.42? I ask because powder bags of these cases were marked 3,7 cm S.K.C.36 and they are often loaded with AP shells.

Hello Alpini, would you happen to know what type of AP shell was loaded? I have never found any solid proof, but some articles mention that the same projectiles as used in FlaK 18 and 36/37 were used. I am inclined to think the Pzgr 18. would make sense in regard to the casing's dimensions.

Greetz, Menno.
 
have seen flak type AP shells with two crimp grooves (only one used) and also PAK type AP shells with one large crimp groove.
 
have seen flak type AP shells with two crimp grooves (only one used) and also PAK type AP shells with one large crimp groove.

Hey,

Thanks for your answer!
Extraordinary that both types were used, ..that's a first for me!
Do you recall iff the shells you observed, were fitted with copper or steel drivingbands? (I can imagine the ballistics being similar for the 3,7 cm Pzgr 18. and the PaK 3,7 cm Pzgr with the narrower steel drivingband).
Was the usual BdZ. 5103 fitted to the shells, or the (KM) BdZ. 42a ?
Were any pictures taken of the finds? Those would finally solve the mystery about FlaK M42 AP, as, to my knowledge, No original documentation on the subject has ever come to light?!
 
Have to correct myself, all were Flak AP shells but with the difference that some of them had only one crimp groove (that's why I remembered them as PAK Pzgr., but they had the same length like the normal Flak Pzgr. with two grooves).

The upper crimp groove was left on the shells with one groove but the grooves where different. Some had one deep grove with same shape as the Flak Pzgr others had one small crimp groove as known from the 3,7 cm PAK Pzgr at the same position. Cartridges with normal two groove Pzgr. were crimped only in the upper groove.

All were fitted with Bd.Z.5103, all parts WaA stamped, no naval stamps. They had FES bands (1945 made so no wonder...). Sadly I am also missing the ammo manual for this gun it would answer our questions.

Only found a very old picture of the "one large crimp groove" shell:
 

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