ADAC list information?

[reccetrooper]

What information is contained in an ADAC list?

I am interested in knowing what info is contained in ADAC No.11501-04 and ADAC No.11503-04, both relate to Greener Mk.III shotgun ammunition, and are/were there other ADAC numbers concerning Greener shotgun ammunition?

[AE501]

Both these ADACs were made obsolete well over 30 years ago, so unless someone has an old SAA pamphlet or RAOC Statistics - Ammunition from around the 1980s, or earlier, these may be hard to find.
The Greener falling block with vertically operated under lever mechanism, used short cartridges to go round the bend. This is similar to the Martini-Henry action.
The Greener shotgun was very robust and I think these cartridges were used mainly by the RAF for bird scaring on makeshift airfields before the large scale introduction of more conventional shotguns into service.

[John P]

The ADAC (Army Department Ammunition Code) list doesn't contain information as such, just details the asset number of a specific item of ammunition. It consists of a 5 digit number (generic code) identifying the item and an additional 2 digit number (specific code) detailing the specific mark or model number .

For example

11901 identifies 5.56 mm Ball L2 ammunition
11901-01 identifies 5.56 mm Ball L2A1 ammunition packed in cartons
11901-02 identifies 5.56 mm Ball L2A2 ammunition packed in cartons
11903-01 identifies 5.46 mm Ball L2A1 ammunition packed in bandoliers.

Unfortunately the ADAC list I have is from 2000 and neither of the numbers you give are in it.

[reccetrooper]

Thank you John P. I have been sent a brief extract from the 2014 ADAC so I can see what was listed at that date for shotgun ammunition.
The ADAC numbers I gave above are from a different document dated 1970. I’m now curious as to when they became obsolete, so I need to locate relevant ADACs, presumably from the 1970’s or 1980’s and definitely prior to your 2000 dated copy..

[reccetrooper]

Can someone clarify what ADAC stands for as I have read two meanings. Is one incorrect, or are both correct at different dates?

Ammunition Descriptive Asset Code

Army Department Ammunition Code

[AE501]

ADAC definition has changed a few times.
In the 1960s and 70s it stood for Army Department Ammunition Catalogue.
Since then it has been both of those definitions and the last I saw Ammunition Descriptive Asset Code, which I believe is still current.
When it started it was just 'Land Service' - in other words 'Army' and rationalised ammunition.
Rationalised ammunition is that which is common to RN and RAF. Obviously aircraft bombs and torpedoes are specific to service and are not considered rationalised so were controlled by the user.
Eventually it was decided that for various reasons it would be best if all ammunition was included in one catalogue - eg.RN and RAF using the same bombs is one reason among many others.

[LCplCombat]

The first number of the ADAC and DMC or COSA section match up in describing what the user group is.

DMC ADAC 1st number
T1... 1xxxx-xx Infantry and common user ie small arms
T2... 2xxxx-xx RAC
T3... 3xxxx-xx RA
T4... 4xxxx-xx AAC
T5... 5xxxx-xx RE and demo stores
T6... 6xxxx-xx GM

(I once had the very great pleasure of explaining this to an AT)


from JSP 886
6. Depending upon the manual processes and IT systems in use, munitions may be identified, managed and accounted for by either a NATO Stock Number (NSN) or an Ammunition Descriptive Asset Code (ADAC). Further unique identification is provided by the use of the munitions Lot / Batch and / or Serial Number. ADACs are used to identify ammunition as follows (in simple terms):

a. Generic ADAC. The generic ADAC is a 5 figure code denoting the type of ammunition, for example: 18400 Mortar Bomb 81mm HE.
b. Specific ADAC. The specific ADAC is a 7 figure code consisting of the 5 figure generic ADAC, followed by 2 additional figures used to denote the specific mark or model number, for example: 18400-36 Mortar Bomb 81mm HE L36A1.

[AMMOTECHXT]

I have an ADAC list from about 1990. It is divided into two parts. One part lists ammunition by ADAC; the other lists the same ammunition but by NATO Stock Number (NSN). The ADAC list was republished fairly regularly, perhaps once a year? Around the time that I left, in 1993, there was a drive on to weed out much of the list that related to obsolete ammunition. By that time the list seemed to consist of more ammunition that was obsolete, rather than ammunition that was current or obsolescent. I don't know or remember if the list was eventually weeded. I will see if I can find mine and give you the info that answers your question. An ADAC list may give you a rough idea of when specific natures were declared obsolete but I feel sure that there will have been some other, more specific, means of declaring when a nature was made obsolete. The ammunition managers in DLSA may have regarded this as a low priority in the big scheme of things, or perhaps were reluctant to knock them off the inventory if they could not be certain that all had been expended or destroyed. Until the introduction of Automatic Data Processing (ADP) in the 1980s ammunition was accounted for in `Kalamazoo' files. Even after the introduction of ADP the Kalamazoos were kept on as a kind of shadow account, in case the ADP failed. In Belize in 1988, for some reason we had small amounts of some 15 - odd year old stocks of 7.62 mm ball SAA and 2 Inch Mortar smoke and illuminating bombs that dated back to the mid 1960s. In 1980 there was Exercise Elbow Room, a demolitions programme to get rid of obsolete ammunition stocks, some of which dated back more than 35 years. Some of the ammo was perfectly serviceable, it was just old or surplus to requirements, or the introduction of more powerful detonators, for example, meant that 1 Lb CE/TNT blocks, having small holes for detonators, could not easily be used with the new detonators. Meanwhile new ammunition, e.g. ammo for the 155 mm FH 70, was trickling into service and the depots only had so much room to store it. Some ammo was even bought on a sale or return basis for operations such as the first Gulf War, so may not have appeared on an ADAC list.

[reccetrooper]

Thank you AMMOTECHXT, if you can find your circa 1990 ADAC list that would be appreciated. It is the Greener Gun cartridges that are of particularly interest.

[AMMOTECHXT]

What information is contained in an ADAC list?

I am interested in knowing what info is contained in ADAC No.11501-04 and ADAC No.11503-04, both relate to Greener Mk.III shotgun ammunition, and are/were there other ADAC numbers concerning Greener shotgun ammunition?

Found it. My edition is dated September 1992. The title page is marked `Catalogue number - ADAC / ADAC - Catalogue number cross reference (with full NATO and short designations)'. The column headings are: ADAC, Cat No., D of Q (denomination of quantity), NATO designation, and short title. This is what appears for your two ADACs:

`11501-04, T1-1305-99-962-6173, SGLE (i.e. single), Cartridge shotgun Greener No. 4 shot ..... OBSOLETE, Cart Greener No. 4 shot
11503-04, T1-1305-99-962-6172, SGLE, Cartridge shotgun Greener SG shot ..... OBSOLETE, Cart Greener SG shot'.

Your attachment looks like a copy of part of Ammo & Explosives Regulations. SAA was detailed in Volume 3, Pamphlet 14. Pamphlet 14 was divided into parts and ammo for sporting guns would have been included in one of those parts.