Some driving bands for ID

[Stuka]

Hiya,

I've found loads of driving band fragments over the last few years, most of which are just standard ones.
Some of them, however, are still unknown to me.
Hope some of you know a bit more about them than I do.


No. 1


No.2, same size as No.1


No.3


No.4. 4,5"?


No.5. I believe this one is from a 5,5" HE, quite a common one over here. Just a different pattern on the back, compared to the ones I find most often. Looks a bit German-ish to me?


No.6, again some 5,5". What's the reason behind the different position of the groove on the front? Halfway versus one third.

Thomas.

 

[justin]

Thomas,
You have probably seen the Identification of Artillery Projectiles in the downloads section - it's an excellent reference piece, though is a snapshot from 1944 and by no means a comprehensive catalogue of driving bands.
Comparing your items with the information in it, it would seem your driving bands are:

1 - British 40mm Bofors HE (different to the single wavy keying in band of Bofors AP projectiles)
2 - US 40mm HE
3 - British ? - is that one keying in groove or two? This would help in the id.
4 - British 4.5 inch
5 - German, but I am afraid I am not familiar with German shells.
6 - British 5.5 inch. The 7.2 inch shell also has five keying in bands and the driving band is the same height, but this may account for the variation in the location of the swaging cannelure on the outward side of the driving band. Not sure where you found your items, but the pieces of this type I own have come from AA shells in the UK and originate from 5.5 inch shells. All have the central swaging cannelure. Your driving band with the cannelure in the different location might then be a 7.2 inch shell, or some other variation not covered in the Artillery Projectile manual.

You seem to have ID'd most of them correctly.
Hope that helps.

 

[AMMOTECHXT]

I find all of these except your No 5, on Norfolk, UK, beaches that were used for training in WW2. Although I have also found your Nos 1 & 2 I have not found much of those.

 

[Stuka]

Thomas,
You have probably seen the Identification of Artillery Projectiles in the downloads section - it's an excellent reference piece, though is a snapshot from 1944 and by no means a comprehensive catalogue of driving bands.
Comparing your items with the information in it, it would seem your driving bands are:

1 - British 40mm Bofors HE (different to the single wavy keying in band of Bofors AP projectiles)
2 - US 40mm HE
3 - British ? - is that one keying in groove or two? This would help in the id.
4 - British 4.5 inch
5 - German, but I am afraid I am not familiar with German shells.
6 - British 5.5 inch. The 7.2 inch shell also has five keying in bands and the driving band is the same height, but this may account for the variation in the location of the swaging cannelure on the outward side of the driving band. Not sure where you found your items, but the pieces of this type I own have come from AA shells in the UK and originate from 5.5 inch shells. All have the central swaging cannelure. Your driving band with the cannelure in the different location might then be a 7.2 inch shell, or some other variation not covered in the Artillery Projectile manual.

You seem to have ID'd most of them correctly.
Hope that helps.

Thank you very much!

No.3 has one groove. Might be 17Pr/77mm, but I don't have any 17Pr shells for reference.
I took some better pictures which might help. These are around 0.8 inch/21mm wide.







I've found some US driving bands which remain a mystery to me as well.
These are from the Ardennes in Belgium.





Something big?

I find all of these except your No 5, on Norfolk, UK, beaches that were used for training in WW2. Although I have also found your Nos 1 & 2 I have not found much of those.

I've found them over there as well, together with lots of 25pr, 6pr 7cwt, US 75mm etc.
These pictured ones are from a spot in Germany where I go searching every now and again.

The German-ish one is from the Reichswald area in Germany, so it might well be German made.
However, it has the same dimensions as the 5,5 inch driving band, also the same cannelure.
Maybe the Germans copied the 5,5" shells for use in captured guns?

The same goes for these 4,5" driving bands:

 

[TimG]

5.5" Driving bands

DD(L)9506/1 - Single driving band retained by either five wavy ribs or three knurled rings in an undercut

DD(L)11367/5 - Double driving bands retained by wavy ribs or knurled rings in an undercut groove.

Likewise DD(L)11367/6 and DD(L)16872/1. DD(L)11367/7 retained by straight interrupted ribs.

TimG

 

[justin]

You have a great collection of these.
Firstly I should make a minor edit to my previous post.
No 6, the 5.5 inch driving band. The difference between the two placements of the swaging cannelure might be down to one being 5.5 inch (the non central cannelure) and the other being 5.25 inch AA, with the central cannelure (this is what my examples come from, I believe).
The only driving band I have reference to with a single keying in groove is the 40mm Bofors AP and your item is too wide for one of these. 17pdr driving bands have two keying in grooves (apparently).
As for the American driving bands, the first is possibly 155mm How M107 - the DB for these is 25mm wide, with the two horizontal rows (mirrored as ribs on the shell).
The second might be 155mm Gun M101, which has four rows of discrete indents (ribs on the shell) and is 51mm wide.
I think the German DB which is similar to the 5.5 inch DB is just coincidentally the same size - no idea what it is from however as I really know nothing about German artillery!

 

[Stuka]

You have a great collection of these.
Firstly I should make a minor edit to my previous post.
No 6, the 5.5 inch driving band. The difference between the two placements of the swaging cannelure might be down to one being 5.5 inch (the non central cannelure) and the other being 5.25 inch AA, with the central cannelure (this is what my examples come from, I believe).
The only driving band I have reference to with a single keying in groove is the 40mm Bofors AP and your item is too wide for one of these. 17pdr driving bands have two keying in grooves (apparently).
As for the American driving bands, the first is possibly 155mm How M107 - the DB for these is 25mm wide, with the two horizontal rows (mirrored as ribs on the shell).
The second might be 155mm Gun M101, which has four rows of discrete indents (ribs on the shell) and is 51mm wide.
I think the German DB which is similar to the 5.5 inch DB is just coincidentally the same size - no idea what it is from however as I really know nothing about German artillery!

Thanks again!
I have lots and lots of DB, a collection on its own.
Most people are not really interested in DB with many detectorists selling it for copper scrap value.
I keep all the DB fragments I find, just because it tells me which other items I can expect in the fields, for example fuzes etc.

I doubt if 5.25" AA was used in the German Reichswald, or was it used against ground targets as well?

I've seen a cut 17Pr APCBC shell in the collection of a mate and it seems to have just one keying in groove.
Or does that differ between APCBC and HE?


Thomas.

 

[Stuka]

5.5" Driving bands

DD(L)9506/1 - Single driving band retained by either five wavy ribs or three knurled rings in an undercut

DD(L)11367/5 - Double driving bands retained by wavy ribs or knurled rings in an undercut groove.

Likewise DD(L)11367/6 and DD(L)16872/1. DD(L)11367/7 retained by straight interrupted ribs.

TimG

Thank you!
Do you know why these differences exist?
Are these just different shell marks used through the years?