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Police in Pennsylvania Confiscate Rifle and Ordnance Collection

M8owner

Well-Known Member
https://6abc.com/guns-ammunition-bombs-and-mortars-found-in-montco-home/5519469/?fbclid=IwAR2BOc-B5XpSJCuUCbto6_VLx9ym80OLE-SvGX0LoERJ8JUq5HpMHXA1mKw

It looks like the US is going the path of the UK faster than I thought. What a harmless collection. Most the rifles look like WWI and WWII bolt action weapons. I am also struck by the small size of this collection. They do not know what a large collection looks like.
 
It is horrible. They even had SWORDS!!! Obviously Commonwealth of Pennsylvania does not care about their residents.
One of their SUVs was stuffed with rifles they removed, cases and cases of ammo and even a couple of swords.
 
Let's not get overly dramatic here, the text portion of the news link is much calmer, likely posted later after more information was available to the press. It was not a raid, LE was requested to clean up by the family. There is no information regarding actual inventory of items recovered, live items, NFA items etc. so you don't know that the response is not completely reasonable.

We had an incident here in MI a few months back where a vet died and Police were asked to clean out his firearms etc - ended up with a significant amount of live 2.36 rockets (HE and WP), 3.5 inch rockets and grenades. The rockets were some of the nicest I've ever seen, the WP warheads were in great condition and some of the 2.36 were the very rare white band versions, with the super-sensitive fuze. All were taken away and destroyed, as were the firearms and inert items, per the family's request. Troopers explained to them that not all items were problems, but the family wanted to be rid of them.

Being indignant and angry at government over-reach is fine, but save it for when the facts are in and the situation warrants it. As a suburb of Philadelphia I'm sure that the locals have plenty of issues and place public safety first. I had contact with a PA-SP bomb tech earlier this year, turning over some live grenades from a collection not far terribly from that area. The officer was reasonable and supportive, took the three items he was given and had no problem with the 110 left behind.
 
I wonder if they are going to do a news story after they are forced to give it all back since it all looks perfectly legal to own. I think I'm gonna take up boating and put all of my gun safes on the boat.
 
I wonder if they are going to do a news story after they are forced to give it all back since it all looks perfectly legal to own. I think I'm gonna take up boating and put all of my gun safes on the boat.

Same point, you're making assumptions, nothing based on fact. Forced to give it back? The report says that they were called by the family, they identified that most of the items were "collectible in nature" and the items were catalogued before they were removed, the family cooperated.

Rhetoric like this is a large part of the problem. The vast majority of LE is out there trying to do a very difficult job the best that they can with limited resources, and no matter how well they do it one side or the other talks shit, usually without a clue about what they are commenting on. Doesn't help.

For me, I'm wondering what was found that had County bomb techs, ATF, FBI and military EOD all coming together and still taking all materials away. That doesn't happen with all items "perfectly legal to own". Should be an interesting report.
 
Screenshot_2019-09-07 Police Family worried after finding military weapons in elderly couple's M.png


Screen grab from the video. "Multiplicity" degrades it significantly.
Lots of practice stuff. Noted a ceramic Jap. mine. Probably a few other fine specimens in the lot. The sad part is where it will all end up and who will, eventually, profit from it. Most likely not the family. I really, really hope none of my collections end up like this. And hope my neighbors are a little less hostile. Bunch of h8ters. Sounds like he might have been one of those "get off my lawn" types. I grok that.
 
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It was also mentioned that the man was a Vietnam Vet and was undergoing psychological screening. As you say, Jeff, we don't know the full story, but in today's climate, it's hard not to expect the worst.

I'm with you Rick.
 
My wife sent me the clipping and she was mostly upset by the "terrorized" members of the neighborhood.
I want to know why anything was removed after the gentleman involved was removed? And I would like to see something that gave the family members the right to determine the fate of that gentleman's property.
 
We really don't know the details. There may have been a few dangerous items in the mix. The actual owner may be in a diminished mental capacity, in which case the family would have no authority to make any legal decision until he is adjudicated as competent or incompetent. If he is found incompetent, then someone (most likely a family member) would be appointed by the courts to oversee his affairs. The authorities removed and catalogued the items but have no right to destroy or dispose of any legal to own item unless given permission by a legally responsible party.
If he is found incompetent, the custodian of his affairs could request that the authorities keep/destroy all of the items taken. This would be a breathtakingly stupid and financially unsound decision as there is a considerable value to his collection, but to someone who hates/fears guns and believes that all of them are evil, this would be their instinctive move.
Anything is possible, but theft of the collection by the authorities is very unlikely as the vast majority are deeply honest.

This incident should serve as a reminder to carefully review our own collections to be CERTAIN that we have not accidentally brought something home with energetic components that could be considered illegal. Having even ONE such item endangers the whole collection and erodes your assurances of everything being inert.

Have a plan as to the preservation/disbursement of your collection with a trusted family member or friend so if something happens that renders you incapable of handling this yourself, the collection is not lost.

As for the comments by his neighbors, they are, unfortunately, the views of a great number of people who are incapable of understanding why one would collect "infernal implements of destruction". My Aunt and Uncle visited a year ago for my sons college graduation. All of the guest bedrooms were already occupied so they got the pullout sleeper sofa in the middle of the collection room. Their view of my collection is the same as mentioned above, so I am sure little sleep was had while surrounded by tons of inert ordnance.
My Aunt looked like a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. They are very intellectual people and finally asked (very kindly) why I collected such items. I explained my interest in the development and evolution of technology, mechanical and chemical advances, and the rarity of items which were never meant to survive. They just stared at me with blank expressions.

Sorry for going on so long, but this is something that is of concern to us all. Pat
 
A company I worked for in Michigan rolled out a work place violence campaign back in the early 90's. They had ten warning signs for identifying possible killers in our ranks. One was a fascination with weapons. I was called in to HR one day with them saying several people had identified me as a possible killer due to that one issue.
 
That is a fault of the training campaign. That can be an identification point, when used in combination with other details. When presented as a simple list it (obviously) can fall out of context and be misused. Similar training is still around, but most that I have seen is a little more involved. No training is perfect, but some is much better than others.
 
I only see the dark side in "Red Flag" laws. They will work just like the no fly lists, thousands will lose their rights without due process of law. The damage the government can do to it citizens far out weighs what terrorists and criminals can do.
 
Conclusion: red flag laws are not meant to defeat terrorists, but to gain control over it's own citizens. As terrorists and criminals are only a very small portion of the population, they are of no real interest to goverments compared to the large mass.
 
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Hmmmmm, don't remember seeing that flying is a "right". Don't like being on the list, take the bus. I hear this BS every day, people saying that their "rights" are being lost, then when the world goes to shit saying that the Govt should have done something. All kinds of easy answers when people don't have to be the ones responsible when things go to hell, or have to pay in one way or another. The rules are there because the majority of the people want them. You don't like them, don't play or convince people to vote differently. Personally, I like my toys. I don't fly unless I'm forced to. But I sure as hell don't try and sneak a gun on board an aircraft like these idiots do every single day. Saw an asshole the other day caught trying to make it through a checkpoint with a 9mm on his ankle, claiming he forgot it was there. Truly sorry we trampled on his rights. Maybe we can book you guys on his next flight?
 
I think it has to do with common sense. As soon as I travel by plane I check my luggage and clothing on things that may give trouble. Wearing a 9mm at your ankle and "forgetting it" sounds quite unbelievable to me, unless he had a wooden leg.....and even than.... I may assume - and hope- shit has hit the fan for this person.
 
Local law enforcement in that location is very sensitive (and has jurisdiction) to civilian complaints. He did not even miss his flight. He may eventually find a surprise in the mail, however, as TSA typically levies a Federal fine. I believe the fine for a loaded firearm brought into a screening area starts at $11K. And then of course he may make one of those inappropriate "lists" that violate due process. People don't make those lists just because their name starts with certain letter, or because they come from a State west of Louisiana (arbitrary). They are based on specific information and history.

4239 guns were found at TSA checkpoints last year, over 80% of them loaded and most with one in the chamber, a record that will likely be broken in 2019, all by people not on the no-fly lists (but should be). And that does not include the incredible variety of other stupid and dangerous materials found every day (1 liter of concentrated nitric acid, etc.). And every day the screening officers get to listen to people whine about taking their shoes off, I'm not a terrorist, she's an old woman, etc. They also get the constant stream of "Sovereign Citizens" that identify that they are not subject to Federal law, and the current criticism over the no-fly lists.
Don't like the lists, suggest something better. But be prepared to take some responsibility for the next deaths. Criticism is easy when there is no responsibility attached.
 
I understand your point, and as I allready stated, I cannot understand somebody being as stupid as to enter an extremely sensitive area like an airfield with a " forgotten" gun. In my opinion thay's plain stupid and asking for shit.
Maybe in the Netherlands we are more thoughtfull for these kinds of mistakes as the consequence will be the loss of your licence(s).
With your job you'll shurely see a collection of hairraising examples of human ignorance.
 
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Look at it this way:
If he does not remember there is a gun on his ankle AND there is an actual emergency situation when he MUST use this gun, then maybe he does not deserve to have a carrying licence.
I am totally aware where my gun is when I am in public (and at home too, but I do not carry at home). And when I do not carry, I am also aware that there is no gun on me.
 
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