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  1. #21
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    Mike,
    When trying to research this grenade I looked into the possibility of it being British made. I was unable to conclude it to be British but the following extract (last line) from the 1915 OB Annual Report was encouraging:

    "Rifle Grenades RL Design 23017 and 23143

    Director of Artillery 19.7.15 asked for drawings and Specifications of the rifle grenade to RL Design 22473 and 20.7.15 asked the Board to carry out trials.

    Chief Inspector Woolwich 20.7.15 stated that RL Design 22473 was merely a drawing of the German Service Grenade, and drawings and Specifications were not available.

    He recommended that the modified form of this grenade shown on CIW Design 2108 be adopted for trials.

    […]"

    I will see if I have the drawing CIW 2108.
    N.


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  3. #22
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    Norman

    I'm amazed that the RL did not understand that it was a modified Marten Hale design based upon his 1911 patent.
    William Mills - Thank you!

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millsman View Post
    Norman

    I'm amazed that the RL did not understand that it was a modified Marten Hale design based upon his 1911 patent.
    John,

    I see what you mean. It would have been rather ironical if they had made the grenade and paid a royalty to the Germans (as per the Vickers No 80 Fuze fiasco) particularly because 'The Crown' was entitled to exploit British Patents by British Subject without payments (not absolutely sure but I think the Patents Act or Defence of The Realm Act and Regulations cover the legal ground on this).

    As you know on their own admission the RL work on the rifle grenade before the war was frustrated by Hales' Patents so the knowledge was, or had been, in Woolwich Arsenal somewhere. It may be that the turnover in staff, or overload of work, was responsible for the lack of familiarity with the Patent issue; or indeed they may have been very familiar with it but just did not reflect it in the OB Proceedings.
    N.


  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millsman View Post
    I'm amazed that the RL did not understand that it was a modified Marten Hale design based upon his 1911 patent.
    From a distance the German M1913 rifle grenade shares a certain similarity of form with the Hale's drawing, but otherwise it is a completely different grenade. The safety/arming mechanism, a defining feature of any grenade, is totally different, it is a German design, using as it does a black powder pellet to restrain the striker. Hale's designs used his preferred restraining bolts as already shown in the drawings in post #14, a feature of debateable reliability until the dying days of the No.35 grenade.

    Woolwich understood what they were dealing with.



    Tom.

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  7. #25
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    At last I have found the drawing CIW 2108 which I attach for your interest.


    CIW2108-scan2573.jpgCIW2108a-001.jpg
    N.


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