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Unknown type of WW1 German grenade (hand or rifle)

Kerfent

Member
Hi all,
please have a look at the attached photo. Its the lower left corner of an otherwise unhelpful German WW1 photo which shows a type of grenade which I just cannot identify. The grenades are fairly small, hand grenade size and look a bit - in my opinion - like 1917n/a with extras above the midline fragmentation ring.

I posted this a while back in a FB group which deals with grenades but they also drew a blank other than it could be „nose caps for mortar rounds“. But no such mortar round is known to me (German, WW1).

That is unfortunately already all that I can attribute here as I do not have any further info. Who has an idea what type of grenade can be seen on the photo?

Thanks a lot!
 

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I think we have a winner! Never managed to match it to that grenade, but now it is obvious! That was fast! Thanks a lot!
 

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Unusual as the ones in the box don't have vertical grooves going all the way to the top.
 
Hi all,
please have a look at the attached photo. Its the lower left corner of an otherwise unhelpful German WW1 photo which shows a type of grenade which I just cannot identify. The grenades are fairly small, hand grenade size and look a bit - in my opinion - like 1917n/a with extras above the midline fragmentation ring.

I posted this a while back in a FB group which deals with grenades but they also drew a blank other than it could be „nose caps for mortar rounds“. But no such mortar round is known to me (German, WW1).

That is unfortunately already all that I can attribute here as I do not have any further info. Who has an idea what type of grenade can be seen on the photo?

Thanks a lot!

Could you post the picture with complete crate ?
 
I also had a look at this and was wondering. But, you can clearly discern the 2 horizontal grooves and if one looks exactly at the photo, you can discern the vertical grooves starting just below the lower horizontal one. So, the ID seems to be right.
Unusual as the ones in the box don't have vertical grooves going all the way to the top.
 
Yes but they should go at least on segment higher than that.

Have you got a pic of one you can show us, John?

Most seem to have the top two rings devoid of vertical grooves.
 

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Design stolen after the 1911 trials at Spandau no less.

Except that the Germans did (arguably with very good reason) replace the safety/arming mechanism with their own completely different design using a black powder pellet, as in the drawing in post #2.

Hale's design used his needle pellet restraining bolts, as shown in his 1911 patent.


.
 

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Tom

I've seen a few were the vertical grooves extend into the lower 2nd segment.

Here's one I have at the moment, which is a minor intrusion but I have seen others where it does extend much further. Considering the number of different machinists, factories in Germany variances from the pattern will occur, as with the Mills transverse castings. - John


SSCN3071.JPG
 
I've probably had about 30 of these pass through my hands in the last 10 years and I'd say between 6 and 8 had shown vertical grooves extending into the 2nd top segment. It looks like the vertical groves were cut with a milling machine and how deep or how long they were depended on the individual operator. I suspect there were rules but when you are turning them out in their thousands there will always be variations. The M1914 is far less likely to have this as the top segment unscrewed and was unlikely to have been machined.
 
No turning machine used on these two grenades IMG_0014.jpgIMG_0015.jpgIMG_0013.jpgfrom casting foundry (see the tracing molding on)
 
It looks like the vertical groves were cut with a milling machine and how deep or how long they were depended on the individual operator.

As Doctor says, there is no need for the use of a lathe, and definitely not a miller - even if the serrations extended further up. The castings are standard longitudinal castings - the flattened serrations can be seen either side of the mould line.
 
mvc-096s.jpgmvc-097s.jpg
This is probably either one of the Hales made examples or an Austrian copy . I've actually no idea whatsoever . None of its parts will fit a German production model . I don't suppose this will help this thread at all . No markings before anyone asks .
 
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