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  1. #1
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    Flak 30/38 book or internet links

    Hi all,

    I´m interested to learn all about flak30/38 ammunition. Have somebody any internet link of this?

    Many thanks, I wait your response

    Jariber

  2. #2
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    Try to get these books and you will have everything you need to know about the 20x138B cartridge.
    "Die Patrone 20 x 138 B, ihre Verwendung in der 2-cm-Flak 30 und 2-cm-Flak 38 sowie in anderen Waffen." Vol. 1 and Vol.2

  3. #3
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    You will also want the German manual "H. Dv 481/2 Merkblatt fur die Munition der 2 cm Waffen". It might be available in the download section of this site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M8owner View Post
    You will also want the German manual "H. Dv 481/2 Merkblatt fur die Munition der 2 cm Waffen". It might be available in the download section of this site.
    I have downloaded the manual. Very nice and many thanks
    Last edited by Jariber; 11th November 2019 at 03:04 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rigby View Post
    Try to get these books and you will have everything you need to know about the 20x138B cartridge.
    "Die Patrone 20 x 138 B, ihre Verwendung in der 2-cm-Flak 30 und 2-cm-Flak 38 sowie in anderen Waffen." Vol. 1 and Vol.2
    ok.- Many thanks, but is very difficult to find this in internet

  6. #6
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    From German Artillery of World War 2/Ian V. Hogg

    Scan_20191111 (4).jpgScan_20191111 (3).jpg

    I note the text advises a case length of 137mm vs the 20X138 designation we all know and love.
    Last edited by Slick; 11th November 2019 at 07:40 PM.
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

  7. #7
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    And on page 2 the "Drill round with wooden bullet" is not a drill round, it is a blank cartridge.

  8. #8
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    Hi all

    I found a glossary that is very interesting too. With this document you can see all nomenclatures required for understand the proyectile´s marks:

    GLOSSARY

    Zt.Z. or Z.Z. Time Fuze (powder train or, in most German WWII fuzes, clockwork)
    Bd.Z. Base Fuze (always impact design using internal inertia to set off fuze)
    K.Z. or Kpf.Z. Nose Fuze (impact or time or both)
    A.Z. Impact Fuze (nose hammer rod and, usually, inertial “graze” design)
    I.Z. Inner Fuze (located at top of cavity, but acts like a base fuze on impact)
    Dopp.Z. Dual Impact/Time Nose Fuze (has base-fuze-type inertial detonator added)
    K.Gr. Cannon Projectile (any kind, but usually with an explosive filler)
    Spgr. H.E. Projectile (either nose, base, inner, or both nose and base fuze used)
    Psgr. or Pzgr. Armor-Piercing Projectile (any kind, though only explosive type has fuze)
    Ub.Gr. Practice Projectile (inert or small explosive filler--obsolete shells used)
    Lg. Star Shell (has time fuze and a parachute flare)
    Nb. Smoke Projectile (also used for H.E. rocket fuzes--“Nebelwerfer roket”)
    m.K. With AP Cap (German Navy terminology)
    m.Haub or m.Hb. or Hbgr. With Windscreen (if nose fuze, with long hammer rod to windscreen tip)
    Br. or Pbr. Incendiary Filler Added (usually white phosphorus--“P”--to an H.E shell)
    L’Spur. Tracer (base plug w/bright, short-lived flare; may be self-destruct element)
    Rot. Red Tracer
    Zerl. Self-Destruct Added (has maximum range where shell detonates if no hit)
    S/XX Time Fuze Maximum Value = XX Seconds
    XX or C/XX Designed/Introduced in Year 1NXX (“N” = 8 or 9 (user assumed to know))
    L/X,Y Length of Projectile in X.Y Calibers (German Navy shell ID terminology)
    Ausf. N Model N (“N” is a letter or letter/number combination)
    nA or n/A New Type (occasionally the term “aA” or “a/A” for “Old Type” used)
    Fl. Centrifically Armed (uses projectile spin to free arming mechanisms)
    Al. Aluminum (fuze outer case material; internal parts may be different)
    Lm. Aluminum Alloy (ditto)
    St. Steel (ditto)
    Zn. Zinc (ditto)
    Pr. Plastic (ditto)
    umg. Modified Version
    V. Internal Time Delay Used (black powder delay after impact sets off fuze)
    eV. Variable Time Delay (two or three possible settings in a nose or base fuze)
    Kl. Smaller
    m. With (e.g., German Navy “m.Kz.” = “with nose fuze”)
    o. Without (e.g., German Navy “o.L’Spur.” = “without tracer”)
    u. And (e.g., German Navy “m.Kz.u.Bdz.” = “with nose and base fuzes”)
    S.K. Naval Gun (against surface targets; ID may include barrel length “L/XX”)
    F.K. Field Gun (general-purpose Army gun)
    F.H. Field Howitzer (high-angle, low-velocity Army gun)
    Flak. Anti-Aircraft Gun (can also be used against surface targets--German “88”)
    Pak. Anti-Tank Gun (no high-angle ability)
    Kwk. Tank Gun (usually Army F.K., Pak., or Flak. modified for use in a tank)
    Stu.K. or Stu.G. XX Assault Gun (on tracked vehicle)--if given, “XX” is gun length
    Kst.K. Coast Defense Gun (some special-made, but most are naval guns)
    Geb. Mountain Gun (lightweight, low-velocity Army gun)
    Zdlg. Exploder or Booster (final stage in fuze train before projectile filler)
    Patr. Cartridge (usually referring to fixed/semi-fixed brass powder case)
    Schr. Schrapnel Projectile (time-fuzed light-case shell filled w/steel balls)
    Sprgst. or Sprgldg. H.E. Projectile Filler (mostly TNT, but picric acid and others used)
    Stg. Cast Steel High-Capacity H.E. Projectile (light-case with nose fuze)
    Oerl. Oerlikon (made 20mm Swedish rapid-fire guns--used by Allies, too)
    Mds. Mauser and Solothurn (other German 20mm rapid-fire guns)


    Other question, Somedy know the Mds rounds, technical specifications... if is a different round or what is its particularity system, see attached, one projectile with MDS marks and kpfz45 fuze


    Blatt01.jpg

    Rgds

  9. #9
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    The Mds does not appear to use the standard 138mm belted cartridge case.

  10. #10
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    That is a 20mm Madsen round, a different round entierly. See the link below to a thread on these, there are other threads as well covering it if you have a search around.
    Best Weasel.

    http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/thread...sen-variations
    Please use the SEARCH function


    BOCN HELPING TO PROMOTE SAFE RESPONSIBLE ORDNANCE COLLECTING


 

 
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