Mills grenades.

[Alan1]

Three unusual Mills grenades in section. Boxed No 23 Mk 11 by E A Radnall with all original varnish etc intact. No 5 Mk 1, baseplate marked to Elmbank Foundry, which has been enamelled, not painted, odd chips etc as would be expected from enamel finish, but otherwise I can remember only one or two that I have seen previously with this enamelling. Presumably a presentation piece or similar from the factory. No 5 Mk 1 dated 11/16 and marked on baseplate to T & S, but made of aluminium. I have always thought this to be a Mills Munitions Company product sample, but would appreciate opinion and comment.
Alan1

 

[gothica7]

Very nice Alan, the no 23 in the box made by E A Radnall & Co. Dartmouth St. Birmingham were contracted by the government in 1916 to produce at least 1000 sectioned grenades that came in cardboard boxes for instructional purposes and is a very nice find that has done well to have lasted so well in such good condition and is a pretty desirable thing for Mills collectors. I dont have the box sadly.The 2 others I suspect may have been local armoury made examples as presentation pieces. The enamelling looks great. Mills Munitions may have tendered to produce such examples but didnt win the bid, I dont know but by 1916,there were many companies making Mills Grenades and the parts needed. William Mills had in fact toured the country instructing a large number of foundries how to make the grenade all of whom could then bid for government contracts, including Mills Munitions.Great bits of kit, well done in finding them


Andy.

 

[Millsman]

Great finds. The boxed versions by Brooks and Doxey and E A Radnal are pretty rare. I think only about 2000 of each were made.

I've never seen an enameled grenade body. Looking at it it may also be Transverse casting (Centre Cast) Fantastic.

The way the two outside grenades have been sectioned looks very different too. Obviously done by a skilled engineer.

Thanks for showing us.

 

[Millsman]

Alan

T&S should be Tweedales & Smalley Ltd.Lancashire based.

I've not seen one of their base plugs in aluminium before, just brass.

 

[gothica7]

Hi John, I believe both Messrs Brooks & Doxey and Radnalls had a contract for 1000 each and that this included both no5s and 23 mk 1s and 2s. I paid £30 for my sectioned B& D without the box but resent having to pay up to £300 for a box so will go without for now.Mind you. I have been pretty successful at finding rare stuff of late.

Andy.

 

[Millsman]

I think the key identifyer for these is the way the bottom of the centre piece is sectioned.

 

[gothica7]

Also, I think the colouration of the cut edges of the bodies is different, black for Brooks & Doxey and red for Radnalls, Need to check this as Ive only got a B & D,

Andy.

 

[Millsman]

Also, I think the colouration of the cut edges of the bodies is different, black for Brooks & Doxey and red for Radnalls, Need to check this as Ive only got a B & D,

Andy.

I've checked mine and both are unpainted on the cut edges. The insides are a dull red.

 

[gothica7]

I think the key identifyer for these is the way the bottom of the centre piece is sectioned.

What is the difference John?

Andy

 

[Millsman]

What is the difference John?

Andy

Here's photos of my E A Radnal 23 Mk II and the B&D No 23 Mk III which both have the same feature.



The centre piece is cut level with the cut in the body exposing the lower part of the anvil.

My B&D No 5 Section does not have this.

 

[Alan1]

Morn Andy and John,
Mny thnks info. In fact, the ends of the box are marked E A Radnall & Co, Cycle and Motor Manufacturers, Vauxhall Works, Birmingham.
I have had a closer look at the T & S baseplate and I am sure that it is brass, as John suggests, but has a phosphate or zinc coating; it therefore matches precisely the aluminium body colour. Incidentally, not seen in the pic, there is an aluminium cap housing for an igniter set without cap or fuze cord, of course, tho' these may be missing on my eg. Doubtful, as there is no witness marks where I would expect them to be, but John's eg certainly has a drill igniter set in place, wch, presumably is original.
As with all such things of a century or more vintage, bits go AWOL alas, leaving us with much searching to find replacements.
And I am not sure whether grenades in section always came with igniter sets in the first place. I have a number, apparently untouched, that are complete with igniter sets, some in section themselves, and at least two that came to me via a friendly CQMS in the stores that do not. the igniter sets for them were demanded separately.
Any views as to the aluminium eg, I am still of the opinion that Mills was the manufacturer.
Alan1

 

[Millsman]

Hi Alan

I think the aluminium detonator will be later item. Most WW1 Mills dets were copper. Yes lots of things go AWOL and are replaced with whatever people have to hand normally.

Here's a photo of a sectioned Mills I have which is an early transverse (Centre cast) casting and it is cut as a 25% section, in the same way Mills made sectioned Roland grenades in early 1915, before he made the Mills No 5. I think this predates the 'boxed sections' by a year.



The detonator is copper.

I think the white enameled Mills is very interesting. The hole in the front is similar to some test bodies Mills made with the cut made to check the internal casting connection. The cut is not carefully done and can only have been to check the internal join.



John