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French 37mm Hotchkiss Mle 1892

LarryF264

Member
Hi All,

Greetings from the USA. This is my second post as a new member. I mainly collect SAA, but I also have caught the bug to collect and learn about larger ordnance. I only have a few large caliber items in my collection so far and would like to share photos of one below. I am hoping that some of the experts here can shed more light on what I have and when it might have been made and/or used.

I recently acquired this inert 37mm Hotchkess Mle 1892 cartridge (at least that's what I believe it is). I've done some research on BOCN and elsewhere on the web and I think I have a basic idea of what the cartridge is, but I am not an expert and would like some confirmation (and correction if necessary). I think I raised more questions than answers in my research. I also posted this on the IAA Forum (https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/37x94r-mle-1892-hotchkiss-questions/38308) but I am hoping to find more about this cartridge here.


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I believe the case is a 37x94R Hotchkiss model 1892 (Mle 1892) based on the headstamp (Px 92). I assume this means Puteaux Mle 1892. Would this necessarily make it a French load? Or would other countries have used this headstamp (perhaps loaded in France for another country)? I was told based on the headstamp that it was made at Atelier de PUTEAUX (Px) in 1892 and the projectile markings (circled L, flaming bomb and anchor) indicate acceptance by the French navy. Does any of this sound accurate? And would the model date also indicate date of manufacture (that would seem unusual to me)?


If it is a naval round, what gun(s) would have been used? Maybe the Hotchkiss rotary cannon or Maxim? And what time frame/wars would this particular round have been used in? When did it become obsolete?


There are several markings on the case:
Headstamp markings:
LOT. 47 with a round dimple near the 7
a larger 0
Px 92 (the x appears like it might have something under it like a short underline or dot, but it could also be a mark from handling)
a smaller 0


Case neck marking: B493B


Faded ink stamp on side of case near head:
might be AUG 1959 (?) or something similar

If the date is from the 1950s this seems late for a cartridge of this type. Does anyone know what either of these other markings are on the side?


Projectile:
I’ve seen references to the projectile as penetrating (AP) LE (black powder I assume) and also HE. Can anyone confirm which or if both (LE or HE) were used at different times? If HE was also used, what was the composition?

The empty case also contains a thick felt wad that looks like it just fits through the neck, but I don’t know if this was used in the original or not (no photo, but I can probably dislodge it from the case if anyone wants a photo).


Markings on the side of the projectile: E.31
The bottom line looks like maybe a circled L, flaming bomb and anchor.

The steel base plug also has a marking on the bottom (and two spanner holes), but I cannot tell what the marking is (possibly another flaming bomb?). And there is a number 12 stamped on the top edge of the plug.

I know I have asked a lot of questions. Any information would be appreciated! Thank you!

Best regards,
Larry
 
Hi Larry,

Welcome to the community. :tinysmile_grin_t:

It's a very nice piece you have here.

Your case was made by Atelier de Construction de Puteaux in 1892 a couple of miles away North-West of Paris, lot #47, I think the "O" marks are reloading marks.
The case neck marking refers as well to a lot number. This is typical of early productions, often seen on coiled cases (earlier cases) and scarcely on the later very first produced one piece cases.

Your shell appears to be a 1892 AP shell with HE effect as well as it was loaded with black powder. The fuze plug indicates a fuze Mle 1892 so shell and case are a match.

The ink inscription on the side isn't related to the cartridge itself, if it is indeed AUG 1959, that's English, not French and could indicate the time when this piece was found by it's first owner? (only an educated guess)

The felt wad is quite likely genuine as these were part of the load and separated the powder from the projectile.

More info on 37mm thanks to Gspragge who did an awesome job:
http://www.bocn.co.uk/gallery/browseimages.php?c=539&userid=

And also here on French manufacturers marks up to 1940:
https://forest.frenchboard.com/t391-abreviation-munitions-francaises
It's in French but easy to use.

Hope this helps,

Frank
 
Hi Frank,

Thanks so much for the info! I was wondering if the case and shell were a match, so I appreciate your confirmation of that.

I saw Gspragge's amazing gallery earlier, which is how I originally came up with the tentative ID. So thanks to both of you!

I think you are probably right about the ink inscription on the case as it wouldn't make any sense otherwise (I hadn't thought about the fact that it is an English date rather than French).

Best regards,
Larry
 
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