7.62cm FK296 (r)

[thehairbarebunch]

Interesting 7.62cm Pzgr.Patr.rot (r) for use in the FK296(r) captured Soviet M1936 field gun. Original captured Soviet ammunition (385mm case) has been sent to Germany and fitted with a German manufactured projectile and re stencilled (Soviet stencils crossed out). Small capacity bursting charge fitted with a Bd.Z 5103 fuse.

 

[earni74]

thats a cracking example,thanks for showing

 

[pzgr40]

Quite rare in this mint museum condition. Great piece!
Regards, DJH

 

[thehairbarebunch]

Thanks guys. Of course, we'll never know what Soviet projectile was originally in the case before it was sent back to Germany but if it were an APHE loading you can understand why the Germans replaced it given the dire quality of the Soviet anti armour projectiles. As well as being in catastrophically short supply the BP350 was hugely inferior to its German counterpart and more likely to shatter than penetrate face hardened armour. Only in the summer of 1942 did the improved BP350B start to arrive with the Red Army, although mass production didn't begin until March 1943.

Even then, it was still inferior to the German projectile and its equivalent western projectiles.

 

[Nabob]

Excelent round, thanks for sharing the photos.
I a question about the designation of your round.
The 7,62 cm Pzgr. Patr. 39 (r) - has the 7,62 cm Pzgr. 39 (r) "old" projectile as seen on the picture.

7,62 cm Pzgr. Patr. 39 rot (r) is the designation of the round with long Pak 40 case.

Is the designation you used (7,62 cm Pzgr.Patr. rot (r)) mentioned in any german manual?

Bob

 

[thehairbarebunch]

Would your contention be that the 7,62cm Pzgr.39 rot with KPS wasn't used in the 385mm case ?

 

[Nabob]

It probably was, but I did not find any written proof for it. I also wonder what would be the designation of such round.
The HE round is called 7,62cm Sprengranatpatrone 39/2 in the manuals.
What is also little strange is the crossed over original marking. When the case was refurbished it could have been removed. I do not know if this was a normal practice or the muna just ran out of solvent.

According to HDv 119/327 (1942) the 7,62 cm Pzgr 39 with KPS bands was used in the 7,62 cm Pak 36.

Bob

 

[thehairbarebunch]

I don't know the answer Bob. I have seen this crossed out Soviet data quite a few times, always I think on the 385mm case for FK use. Have you never seen any examples ? As always there appears to be a whole pile of ambiguity surrounding the subject of captured Soviet ordnance.

 

[M8owner]

I have one with crossed out Soviet data. I also do not believe the red band above the driving band on the AP is proper for the FK 296 (r) as it is not shown in any of the German manuals. However, the red band is clearly indicated in the ammo manual for the Pak 36 converted Russian F-22 cannon. I have not looked at my two rounds in sometime. It looks like I need a white band on the nose for my hollow charge. Should the nose be white on the HE also? I do have a KPS HE with an original white nose for my Pak 36 round - the manual shows that correct. However, the manual indicated in this thread does not show the German made HE version.

 

[thehairbarebunch]

I'll try to find more but here's one captured case with indistinct crossed out Soviet data.

 

[thehairbarebunch]

A 284 (r) loading with clearer cross.

 

[Nabob]

Hi, thanks for the pictures, as good cases are quite scarse I have not seen or remember seeing crossed-out markings.
There are some german steel 385 mm long cases from time to time.

There should be a 30mm wide white stripe under the fuze. The German HE round is listed in the HDv 119/116 manual.

Bob