Welcome to the Inert Ordnance Collectors.
Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    Premium Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    15
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts

    Naval 4 Inch QF Mark XVI projectile

    Gents,

    This is my 4” naval gun projectile which took me approximately 7 years to locate. This particular projectile was used on many Royal Navy, Royal Canadian Navy, and Royal Australian Naval warships in the 30’s and 40’s up until approximately 1970. This piece of ammunition is 42.1 inches (1.07 m) long and weighs approximately 57.75 pounds and with the piece filled weighs 66.75 pounds (30.28 kg). The weight of just the projectile itself is 35 pounds (16 kg).

    The projectile was purchased at a local surplus store approximately 7 years ago and the shell casing was purchased through an Antique arms dealer (very reputable dealer) in the southern U.S. approximately 2 years ago, and only after approximately 5 years of searching. The dealer stated that in his 20 plus years of dealing, he had never run across a shell casing like this as they are extremely rare and only a few known to exist on decommissioned WW2 warships, one being the HMCS Haida which is located in Ontario Canada. As far as I am aware, I currently own the only piece in a private collection in North America. As such, this is an extremely rare piece of WW2 and post war history.

    I am sure that the colour scheme on this projectile is incorrect. Can anyone provide me with the correct color scheme for this projectile? The driving band was also missing so I fabricated a new one from pictures. The markings are all original and stamped directly into the projectile and casing as was the norm.

    I am aware that some of the markings on the projectile and casing indicate the following:

    Projectile Upper :

    S.E. - unknown
    10585 YS - unknown
    4 - unknown

    Projectile Lower:

    4in 35LB N2FA - 35lbs is the weight of the projectile, N2FA is Naval mk2 Fixed Ammunition ie it was crimped in a case
    @ 2/56 47 FS - date of manufacture ie FEB. 1956, FS indicating that the projectile is manufactured from forged steel

    Bottom of Casing:

    Lot 262
    Mks XVI & XVI* GUNS
    II
    DB/C
    1943
    LOT 262




    Last edited by mevm36; 28th June 2020 at 04:02 AM.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to mevm36 For This Useful Post:

    ron3350 (28th June 2020)

  3. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    524
    Thanks
    523
    Thanked 561 Times in 229 Posts
    A nice case and projectile. I have noted a 1941 case by DB/C.
    My two practice projectiles are from 1950's too.
    I have 5 cases:
    ICI 1940, ICI 1941, RL 1942, VAEL 1939 Mks XV1 (crossed) XV1* & XX1 Guns, MF Mks 16* & 21 GUNS Mk2 1954..
    I also note ECC 1941 and MF 1960 in my files.
    I agree cases are hard to find now and projectiles even harder. I will have to locate these items if you want photos. Ron.

  4. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Cape Town, South Africa
    Posts
    459
    Thanks
    404
    Thanked 528 Times in 169 Posts

    4 inch Mk.16 & 21

    As a few of the South African ships were fitted with these guns the cases do appear from time to time. I also have various drill rounds in this calibre.

    Here are a few photos I have. The HE and practice are sectioned. So only one side visible. Local navy museum at Simons Town could possibly assist.

    IMG_6060.JPGIMG_6059.JPGIMG_6057.JPGIMG_6056.JPGIMG_0185.jpg20150829_172313_resized_1.jpg4 inch mk 16 a.jpg4 inch mk 16 c.jpg

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Andy Naude For This Useful Post:

    doppz92 (30th June 2020), ron3350 (29th June 2020)

  6. #4
    Premium Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    15
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
    Hi Ron,

    Thanks for the information, very much appreciated. I find that in North America, these cases and projectiles are next impossible to find. I believe this may due to the fact that almost all WW2 ships both US and Canadian that were fitted with this caliber weapon were for the most part decommissioned after the war with only a few Canadian warships remaining until the mid 60’s. HMCS Haida being one of them. Even with the Haida, she had been retrofitted several times after WW2 to deploy in the Korean and Vietnam wars, however her 4” guns were removed and she was fitted with other guns. She is now a floating museum and reconfigured for the most part back to her wartime configuration.

    As an avid collector, as mentioned in my post, it took me several years of active searching to locate this case, and as I am in Canada, I finally located her with the help of a well known dealer in the southern US. Now the purchase and shipping of this case cost me a small fortune, however due to the rarity of this item here, I was not about to pass up the opportunity of purchasing the case to complete the entire projectile. I wish the projectile itself had its original driving band, however based on pictures, I think I did a fairly good job of recreating one using PVC. I would love to see photos of your projectiles if you have them available.

    Kind Regards,

    Marcus


    Quote Originally Posted by ron3350 View Post
    A nice case and projectile. I have noted a 1941 case by DB/C.
    My two practice projectiles are from 1950's too.
    I have 5 cases:
    ICI 1940, ICI 1941, RL 1942, VAEL 1939 Mks XV1 (crossed) XV1* & XX1 Guns, MF Mks 16* & 21 GUNS Mk2 1954..
    I also note ECC 1941 and MF 1960 in my files.
    I agree cases are hard to find now and projectiles even harder. I will have to locate these items if you want photos. Ron.

  7. #5
    Premium Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    15
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
    Hi Andy,

    Thanks for the reply. I am jealous of the number of projectiles you have! Well done!. I did post a reply back to Ron in regards to his posting indicating how rare these items are in North America. Thank you for the pictures as it appears that the paint scheme on my projectile may not be that far off from the original. When I purchased the projectile, someone had painted the entire projectile a god awful red with a bright silver tip. It looked like a horrendous large Christmas ornament so I stripped the projectile and based on the few pictures that I could locate on the internet and other resources, I repainted it and re-stencilled it based on the information I found. Unfortunately the driving band was missing from my projectile so I fabricated one using PVC. I think it came out very close to the original so I am happy with that.

    Again many thanks for your pictures!

    Marcus


    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Naude View Post
    As a few of the South African ships were fitted with these guns the cases do appear from time to time. I also have various drill rounds in this calibre.

    Here are a few photos I have. The HE and practice are sectioned. So only one side visible. Local navy museum at Simons Town could possibly assist.

    IMG_6060.JPGIMG_6059.JPGIMG_6057.JPGIMG_6056.JPGIMG_0185.jpg20150829_172313_resized_1.jpg4 inch mk 16 a.jpg4 inch mk 16 c.jpg

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to mevm36 For This Useful Post:

    Andy Naude (29th June 2020)

  9. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    524
    Thanks
    523
    Thanked 561 Times in 229 Posts
    4 Inch a.jpg4 Inch b.jpegAndy. Very nice collection of projectiles.
    Here are my two projectiles.

    4" 35 LB
    F.A. MK N3
    A-A (3 times)
    It has 2 white stripes at the top.

    Stamped on the projectile:
    Mk N3 CONVTD MO 8-55
    P
    1B (cancelled) AN
    35LB
    F A 1. SX 152
    M R 11-44

    It has a cardboard liner from thread to base. Plus a red painted crown and FS with 4 lines around it.
    The nose is a Plug Firing No14. Mk 3/AN MO ^. Lacquered brass plug.

    The second projectile is printed:
    4" 35 LB F.A. Mk2 **
    P.S (twice) in yellow
    M E 2/59
    AN

    The projectile is stamped:
    4 IN 35 LB II** B /AN
    F. A
    P. FS
    M.O. 2.47. 298

    The fuze is a Plug Firing Mk2. AN REP. 230 ^ M.O. 6/55

    I only show the Australian case which may be scarce for overseas viewers.
    You would think MF would know how to stamp a headstamp that is readable and not too light to photograph after 25 years of production.
    This 102x730R case has a silver cross on the base. Signifies powder flashless or something. I forget now.

    Headstamp is:
    4 IN. MKS 16* & 21 GUNS Mk 2 Lot 129 A^N 1954 MF
    Primer is No14 1942

  10. #7
    Premium Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    15
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
    Thanks Ron,

    That is indeed quite a collection you have! I wish these items were easier to find here in Canada, most have to be purchased in the US and it can be difficult when bringing them across the border. In these days of COVID, collecting these items is next to impossible due to the shipping costs.

    Marcus.
    Bleed with me and you shall
    be forever my brother​

  11. #8
    Premium Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Sheffield UK
    Posts
    106
    Thanks
    21
    Thanked 24 Times in 9 Posts
    i've just started looking for a projectile for my empty case, now i know what to look for. Don't rate my chances of finding one though. 106580772_10223197679474292_4874028049796907803_o.jpg Here's a photo of the headstamp.

  12. #9
    Premium Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    15
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by celica View Post
    i've just started looking for a projectile for my empty case, now i know what to look for. Don't rate my chances of finding one though. 106580772_10223197679474292_4874028049796907803_o.jpg Here's a photo of the headstamp.

    Good luck, I hope you can find one...I came across mine quite accidentally several years ago and it was more difficult for me to find the casing. Keep searching, you never know where you will find it!

    Cheers

    Marcus
    Bleed with me and you shall
    be forever my brother​

 

 

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Back to top