4in Naval gun Casing

[ColeG]

Hi all,

i have what i believe to be a 4inch naval gun casing. picked up at auction

Measurements
Bottom: 5 1/4 inch
Length: 20 1/4 inch
Top: 4 inch


The headstamp markings seem similar to this post : http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/threa...h-QF-Mark-XVI-projectile?highlight=4-inch+XIX
But the taper of the casing does not match.

I cant seem to find a photo of one anywhere online

Does anyone else have one ? or have any clue what it really is?

Thanks

 

[TimG]

Your case is for 4" gun - Marks IV, XII & XIX.
Mark IV gun used QF separate ammunition when used on surface vessels and QF fixed on submarines.
Mark XII gun used QF fixed ammunition - submarines.
Mark XIX gun used QF fixed ammunition - surface vessels..

The link shows a case for a 4" gun - Mark XVI & XVI* (modified XVI)
This gun was designed as a Dual Purpose weapon: LA & HA (anti-aircraft) and used QF fixed ammunition.

For further details - http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_Main.php

TimG

 

[ColeG]

Thank you ! so the question is now, does anyone else have one ?

 

[ron3350]

Sorry Tim but the case clearly is stamped Mk4,12 &19 Guns and is a fixed round 102x513R.
I think have a case too if I can find it.

 

[TimG]

Ron, thank you, typo corrected.

TimG

 

[TimG]

Ron,

The Mark IV gun used QF separate, when used on surface vessels, QF fixed for submarines.

TimG

View attachment Ammunition Pocket Book 1924.pdf

 

[Michel]

Not the same as yours but here is the F.A. Type headstamp.

 

[ron3350]

Tim is correct about the separate loading of some 4" Mk1V guns as per the printed info.
I ask why I have not seen any Mk 1V 11 cases made since WW1 era? Did the destroyers all use surplus/reloaded cases for the separate loaded guns 102x492R.
These all have 3 sets of mouth cut-outs for the case lid, although some are found with 490mm cases and no cut-outs.
The case has a tapered case and is 106mm at the mouth.

I have noted cases by KN dated 1914, 1915 &1916. Cases by B dated 1917. No doubt other cases exist too.
I ask if the chambers, lids and gap behind the rammed projectiles could accept the fixed 4" Mks 1V,XX11 & X1X guns 1V cases without modifications to the chambers.
I realise we are all only collectors/historians.

The 4" Mks 1V, X11 & X1X (also noted with an XX11 Gun added to the headstamp) is a fixed round only as stated in this thread.
It is 102x513R has 8 long mouth crimps and a small shoulder/neck at the top.
Noted makers MR (Rutherford, NSW) dates 1943,1944 and ECC dates 1942,1943 & 1944.
I also have a MR star shell with a knurled rim for ID but has been cut down.

My query is again: with an extra 22mm case length and a fixed round, were these shells able to be used in the early Mk1V guns? Looks like they were if nobody can show me a WW2 dated 4" Mk1V 11 case. All information is welcome as I still have a lot to learn about artillery and big guns. Ron.

I show my three case lengths for 4" guns. top one is 312mm fixed. Middle Mk 1V is 290mm no cut-outs and bottom one is a Mk1V with cut-outs.
I took case headstamp photos but were not satisfactory. All to light to read clearly. Maybe later I will re-do them.

 

[TimG]

Ron,
Thanks to Michel's post, I now understand the point you were making above, I had (shamefully) not seen the 'FA' which obviously denotes 'Fixed Ammunition' and is used to differentiate between cases when they are available as either fixed or separate.

The attached should answer in part your question about interchangeability.

TimG

P.S. In the case of the Mk. IV gun if modifications were needed to fire 'Fixed Ammunition' one would expect at the very least such a gun would have the nomenclature of Mk. IV*.

 

[ron3350]

More answers and more queries arise. I will not hog this thread any longer unless new items are found.
I am looking for a case photo or details of 4" separate loaded cases as used in WW2 for the old Mk1V guns.
I thought all WW1 Mk 1V guns separate loaded would have been scrapped or altered so only the 4" Mks 1V, X11 & X1X ammo would be used.
Thanks Tim. I hope others may chime in with case examples.