German HEAT 7.7CM

**MINENAZ16** · 27th November 2020, 09:13 PM

Hello,
Pictures from previous post (US-SUBS - Aberdeen).
An interesting german 7.7cm HL. Maybe an expermental shell made during the 30's. (as far as I know 7.7cm guns were in service at the begining of ww2).
Not sure of efficiency because of the massive fuze in front of the shaped charge (??)

ICE-AH-164-4%2075mm - Copie.JPG ICE-AH-164-45.JPG

**Alpini** · 27th November 2020, 10:32 PM

Nonono, it's a F.K.Gr.11 (universal shell) with suitable internal parts (steel disc missing) and a L.K.Z.16 (wrong fuze for this shell). So nothing special, millions of pieces produced...

I think you held every part in your hands many times at work

Correct for this shell would be a K.Z.11 or K.Z.11 l.B. (not K.Z.11.Gr)

**MINENAZ16** · 28th November 2020, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Alpini

Nonono, it's a F.K.Gr.11 (universal shell) with suitable internal parts (steel disc missing) and a L.K.Z.16 (wrong fuze for this shell). So nothing special, millions of pieces produced...

I think you held every part in your hands many times at work

Correct for this shell would be a K.Z.11 or K.Z.11 l.B. (not K.Z.11.Gr)

Yes I agree Alpini, but displayed with this strange combination on this picture (serious source).
Wrong fuze, wrong internal part, full green, unfired...Someone tried something.
The fuze seems to be empty, as a ballistic cap.

**Alpini** · 28th November 2020, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by MINENAZ16

wrong internal part

Why? It's correct in my opinion...

This shell has characteristics for a production at the beginning of WW1 and production stopped before the end of the war because of it's ineffectiveness. The color isn't original it was repainted with modern color over the still rusty surface without a primer like other shells from this collection too. Half of the driving band is missing - for me a typical examination piece.

The steel body of the L.K.Z.16 isn't even hardened but the shrapnel shell body is tempered and would break immediately on impact on a hard surface (a bad concrete would be hard enough)

**Nabob** · 28th November 2020, 05:14 PM

When I saw this post and looked at the brass part it realy looked like shape charge liner. :-)
I had to look up the shrapnel.
Can someone share a pic of a cutaway, please?

Bob

**MINENAZ16** · 28th November 2020, 06:51 PM

I understand what means Alpini, but I never seen a complete dismantled 7.7cm Gr11.
So you think such a brass cup shoud close the top charge ? No too resistant for transmission to the charge when fired as an HE shell ?

7.7 gr11.jpg

Sorry Alpini, this strange shell is maybe an homemade device, I only want to show again this strange combo from the museum.

**Alpini** · 28th November 2020, 07:53 PM

Yes it's the original cup, they exist in steel too.

Didn't a french BOCN member post a cutaway of this shell recently? Just don't have the time to search at moment.

**MINENAZ16** · 28th November 2020, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by Alpini

Yes it's the original cup, they exist in steel too.

Didn't a french BOCN member post a cutaway of this shell recently? Just don't have the time to search at moment.

my mistake

Very funny, maybe they made the first shell with shaped charge without knowning it !

**Alpini** · 29th November 2020, 01:21 AM

Hehe, yes some of the german 2nd WW shaped charge shells have a similar looking cup inside.

A very long time ago I took this picture of the complete parts of the F.K.G.11. As far as I know not all shells had the smoke charge (the aluminium can). The black powder charge on bottom was in an aluminium only on shells from old stock.