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ID French Navy 1863 ball shell and fuze

MINENAZ16

MINENAZ16

Well-Known Member
Ordnance approved
Hello,
This one (I assume, from French Navy) is in our collection for a long time and I never took time to ID.
Diameter of shell : 215mm (damaged because of rust, so diameter could be larger).
Markings on fuze : ORD 1863 (+ anchor).
Fuze length : 59mm
Visible length : 5mm
Head diam : 31mm
Thread diam : 20mm

So I'm interested by designation of shell and fuze.

Regards


IMG_0313.jpgIMG_0315.jpgIMG_0320.jpg

IMG_0321.jpgIMG_0328.jpgIMG_0326.jpgIMG_0329.jpg
 
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Hallo @MINENAZ16,
very interesting, especially I think in Europe. Your specimen seems to be a US civil war eara standard "Watercap fuse". I've never had one in my hands, so I'm no specialist. The stampings on the fuze make it a US fuse and it was fired. I could not find a picture of a precise copy of your model, but it fits in well with Cyrus Alger's designs. You must translate the metric sizing into US-caliber nomenclatur to find the gun this shell was used in.
Regards,
Bellifortis.
 
Thanks a lot.
I never thought it could be US !
Fired in a French sea.
Maybe the only one in a French collection.
It's too bad, I would never know the strange story of this shell.
 
Seems to be a 9in. My fuze is smaller with only 2 holes on top and fitted in a brass adapter. Fuze of inert-ord.net is the same as 9in showed in relicman.com. My fuze is not inside the shell and exceeds 5mm so maybe rust could have been reduced the diameter of shell.
In this example (only one example with this adapter on relicman) we can see something like an adapter inside the fuze hole

A2531A.JPG

http://www.relicman.com/artillery/Artillery0000-Index.html

http://www.relicman.com/artillery/Artillery1811-Ball9in.html
 
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Yes, it definitely an interesting shell you have in your collection.
If you have too much time at hand you might study the reference works given at relicman.com.
Where exactly was it found? You said a french sea or lake?

Best regards,
Markus
 
Terricus said:
Yes, it definitely an interesting shell you have in your collection.
If you have too much time at hand you might study the reference works given at relicman.com.
Where exactly was it found? You said a french sea or lake?

Best regards,
Markus
Click to expand...

I asked the older personnel and no one remembers how this shell came to our collection at work (south of France).
A real mystery.
 
The US "Mediterranean Squadron" (the precursor of the 6th Fleet) was still active in the area in the 1860s. Since its creation to fight the Barbary Pirates in operations, as under the leadership of Commodore Stephen Decatur (remembered mainly today for its saying "My Country Right or Wrong") along the Algerian and Lybian coasts, in 1812 and 1830, it maintains a presence that served at affirming the position of the newly created United States on the International scene. During the 1861-65 War of Secession its name was changed into "European Squadron" and was active in enforcing the blocus on the Confederate naval Trade in the Atlantic and Mediterranea, intercepting merchant vessels transporting goods exported by the South or European weapons destined to the Confederation.
This is most probably the origin of your shell.
A very nice find!
 
Hi @MINENAZ16,
I looked at the references given by others. But, I did not find an exact replica of your fuse. Judging by your foto of the bottomview, it seems that a part has broken of. The fuse fired, some powder of the shell also seems to have ignited without breaking the shell (very strange). Then water entered and together with the salts of the residue burnt black powder attacked the brass of the fuse. Seawater alone does not attack brass like that (as one sees at the top of the fuse). The shell must have been lieing in the water for quite a long time before it was found.
bellifortis.
 
Hi @MINENAZ16,
I've been thinking about this shell being intact, also the fuse functioned normally. Spherical black powder shells of 200 years ago mostly had wooden time fuzes. Such large shells were expensive to produce. So for practice-firing, on a range, the shells were loaded with just a little bit of powder, enough to expell the wooden fuse, but not enough to damage the shell. These were collected, cleaned and reloaded. Your shell already has a threaded metal-fusebody. I have never read anywhere about how such shells were prepared for target practise shooting. does anyone here know ?
Bellifortis.
 
Thanks for your interest on this subject.
Sometimes with ordnance it's interesting like archeology.
 
Hi @MINENAZ16,
I had a look in literature of that time. These navy metallic watercap fuses existed in only 3 variations : a 3" watercap fuse with 7 sec. delay to be used up to 1900 yards. a 4" fuse with 10 sec. to be used up till 2400 yards and a short rangefuse of 2 sec. I assume your specimen to be a 3" fuse with the bottom corroded away. I think I found a very nice examople of your shell in one of the links above. it seems to be a shell for the 9" Dahlgren gun. It may have been fired for comparsion with other guns on a french navy shooting range with facilities at that time to recover the shells. But, your specimen was only found much later. As the shell ended up in your collection i would assume that it would have been found not far away from your place. Attached is a foto from one of the above links.1862- Navy watercap 3inch in 9inch Dahlgren ballshell.jpg
Bellifortis.
 
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