2Pr Mk 1 case for Mk 111 Guns Only.

[ron3350]

This is an odd case stamped for Mk111 Guns Only. Otherwise a 2Pr Vickers Navy WW1 case. Wrong 1944 primer instead of WW1 date.
Came with a Mk111 HE projectile and a No 121 Fuze. Not my item so guessing the fuze number. I show the headstamp only.

I cannot find any reference to a Mk111 2Pr gun . I found a Mk11* gun only. Any help is appreciated.

 

[ydnum303]

The Mk.III 2-Pdr gun was for submarines. There was a thread about this stamping a few years back (started by my chum "Falcon", I think), when a couple of cases with this stamping turned up over here. If you use the search facility, you should find it, I hope.

Roger.

 

[ron3350]

I found the old thread with your help. Interesting reading. It is hard to find info on the WW1 cases and projectiles.

 

[ydnum303]

Yes. I note that yours were made by the Gramophone Company, whilst ours were made by a different firm. Also, the style of the additional stamp re the Mk.III gun is different. I initially thought that perhaps ours were made as a small Lot for trials/experimental purposes, but with more than one manufacturer, there must have been a fair few of these rounds. However, the question as to why there should be rounds made specially for the Mk III gun still remains. Special propellant? Different ballistics? We shall probably never know. I did raise a query about this gun and its ammunition with the RN Museum at HMS Excellent, but they had no info, unfortunately.

Roger.

 

[2pounder]

My thoughts are why a 2pr on a sub? surely not main armament to attack a ship in lieu of torpedoes just not effective enough. So AA on a sub.? it was not later in the war went German subs were being attacked and bombed by long range aircraft that they discovered staying on the surface and using AA to prevent a straight bombing run was the most likely way to survive. So did we copy them? and was the 2pr mounted on a weaker part of the sub that could not take the full weight and recoil? I think investigating the gun position might be a clue to any reduced ballistics.

 

[TimG]

See - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_F-class_submarine

TimG

 

[Dronic69]

Extracted from Norman Friedman book: "Naval Weapons of WW1" - may provide some clues why the 2pdr was used on submarines.

 

[Dronic69]

Further, from "The World Encyclopedia of Submarins" by John Parker - there a reference to the British E-Class which ties in with the above that 1 x gun of "various" calibres were carried.