Welcome to the Inert Ordnance Collectors.
  • Login:
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 19 of 19

Thread: 120 mm case ID

  1. #11
    Premium Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Cornwall.
    Posts
    1,011
    Images
    74
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 242 Times in 139 Posts
    Hi D, does a standard British adapter fit the case? Interested as this fits in with my post on cases with tabbed case closure and external primers/adaptors in British use. Cheers Tig.
    Always seeking British flares and 2" mortar rounds.

  2. #12
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    954
    Thanks
    569
    Thanked 475 Times in 222 Posts
    Hi Tig,

    And yes, the external primer / adapter is a perfect fit. No tabs on the case though. I certainly think you can add this case to your list.

    20220418_140031.jpg20220418_140041.jpg
    Always looking for projectiles, cases, fuzes and paperwork related to Burney and Davis guns.

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Berkshire
    Posts
    565
    Thanks
    406
    Thanked 133 Times in 96 Posts
    I also have a case of similar rim diameter which has been puzzling me. The mouth is 126mm diameter, the length is 132mm, the rim diameter is 143mm, and the diameter just above the rim is 129mm.
    The headstamp is 4'7 IN HOWR V.S.M 1914 CF
    The inside of the case is blackened by firing (presumably), except for the top inch or so, possibly because of a wad of some kind? The mouth is smooth, so any cutting down was done carefully. Could it be a blank?

    However, David Ibbetson in his book on British QF ammunition indicates that the 4.7" Howitzer used shortened cases from the 4.7" Coastal guns, the original case of 404mm length being shortened to 256mm, and with a diameter above the rim of 137.7mm. As such, these two cases are not interchangeable. So, two different 4.7" Howitzers, or some other explanation?35 4.7in Howr, internal tidemark.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ydnum303 For This Useful Post:

    charley777 (20th April 2022), ron3350 (21st April 2022)

  5. #14
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    954
    Thanks
    569
    Thanked 475 Times in 222 Posts
    Interesting Roger. No answers from me but I note there is no Naval marking....
    Always looking for projectiles, cases, fuzes and paperwork related to Burney and Davis guns.

  6. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Berkshire
    Posts
    565
    Thanks
    406
    Thanked 133 Times in 96 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Burney Davis View Post
    Interesting Roger. No answers from me but I note there is no Naval marking....
    Indeed not, but why? Too early (i.e., pre-adoption)? Factory trials case? Sloppy marking? Who can tell?

    Roger.

  7. #16
    Premium Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    hertfordshire
    Posts
    1,040
    Thanks
    11
    Thanked 230 Times in 170 Posts
    from the LS 1916 handbook QF 4.7inch ''B'' guns on travelling carriages on page 35 it states' A special metal or steel cartridge case 3'' long is used with this charge to act as an obturator together with the Mark IV or V adaptors to take the percussion tube.

  8. #17
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    954
    Thanks
    569
    Thanked 475 Times in 222 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by 2pounder View Post
    from the LS 1916 handbook QF 4.7inch ''B'' guns on travelling carriages on page 35 it states' A special metal or steel cartridge case 3'' long is used with this charge to act as an obturator together with the Mark IV or V adaptors to take the percussion tube.
    I wonder if this is actually a reference to the case in post no 12 in this thread? http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/thread...-primers/page2
    Always looking for projectiles, cases, fuzes and paperwork related to Burney and Davis guns.

  9. #18
    Premium Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    hertfordshire
    Posts
    1,040
    Thanks
    11
    Thanked 230 Times in 170 Posts
    Yes it does look like the one in the earlier post which I had not read or was just tired after a busy day and forgot.

  10. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Enschede, The Netherlands
    Posts
    312
    Images
    15
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 64 Times in 24 Posts
    I took a look at the head of the case shown in the OP.
    I don't think this was Japanese used. The only marking that IS present that looks like anything that the Japanese Navy would also have on their cases would be the '6/14'. In Japanese context, without a preceding 'S' to put it in the Showa era, that could then only mean 'Taisho year 14, month 6', i.e. June 1925. However... I'm pretty confident that:
    1) That style of date marking is essentially a 'Japanese copy' of the British style, so in this case likely to be a coincidence (and in reality being as Hazord wrote: June 1914), and I say this especially because...
    2) ...it would be a woefully late date for the IJN to have imported a British casing still. From memory, the latest date I recall having seen on a British manufactured case that was imported by Japan (or intended for such) was from 1901. It seems to me that from late 1901 onward Japanese arsenals (mainly/solely?) produced the ammo that the Japanese earlier imported from the UK. I don't have official documentation to back this up, so I'm going here by 'specimens seen'.

    On a Japanese used case I WOULD expect some form of Japanese marking, either a small anchor, or some other arsenal and/or acceptance mark, and I would NOT expect a 'Cf' marking on it, nor the broad arrow. As far as my inquiries with collectors specialised in British ammo have lead me to learn, both the 'Cf' and the broad arrow would really only be present on cases that were actually USED by the British (or 'accepted for use') and hence as far as those source have informed me, should NOT be present on cases used by other nations. This matter is open for some debate still though, as elaborated on in my article about early IJN ammo, so please don't shoot the messenger if I'm saying anything that's not completely correct here.
    The main trouble I have in being certain about any of this, is that I keep trying to turn over stones in all areas of the world to see if there's some official documentation about such matters as the British exports to Japan, but try as I might, to no avail so far. :/
    Hopefully someone can fill that void still some day.

    Cheers!
    O.-
    Last edited by ogreve; 13th May 2022 at 03:25 PM.

  11. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to ogreve For This Useful Post:

    Burney Davis (15th May 2022), charley777 (15th May 2022), ydnum303 (13th May 2022)

 

 
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Back to top